Warband-ready Destro Class Guide: Gear, Masteries, Renown Points, Talismans and Pots (by Entropy and Chaos)

[Lion1986]

I would definetly update that guide. Ranged SH so far far surpasses melee in kill potential and rough dps output. With the nerf that came to Squig Armor you definetly are way safer to be in range.

[leftayparxoun]

I would definetly update that guide. Ranged SH so far far surpasses melee in kill potential and rough dps output. With the nerf that came to Squig Armor you definetly are way safer to be in range.

The guide is aimed at warband play, meaning that while rSH is far deadlier at single target damage than MSH, it brings almost nothing else to the table. The 3 useful things that rSH has that work in an AOE manner is a bad AOE dot (Explodin' Arrer), AOE Corp debuff (if you managed to time the frenzy buff on the Gas squig correctly) which also doesn't stack with other corp debuffs and finally their M2/M3/M4. They do not, however, have access to any other kind of consistent AOE dmg tool.

You could maybe argue for a hybrid SH build, but MSH just brings a lot more AOE pressure for the warband alongside some great debuff (Bad Gas!) and utility tools (Outta My Way!, KABOOM!, Sticky Squigz). No one will take a rSH over a MSH in a (non-city) warband if they have the choice in the matter.

[Lion1986]

I would definetly update that guide. Ranged SH so far far surpasses melee in kill potential and rough dps output. With the nerf that came to Squig Armor you definetly are way safer to be in range.

The guide is aimed at warband play, meaning that while rSH is far deadlier at single target damage than MSH, it brings almost nothing else to the table. The 3 useful things that rSH has that work in an AOE manner is a bad AOE dot (Explodin' Arrer), AOE Corp debuff (if you managed to time the frenzy buff on the Gas squig correctly) which also doesn't stack with other corp debuffs and finally their M2/M3/M4. They do not, however, have access to any other kind of consistent AOE dmg tool.

You could maybe argue for a hybrid SH build, but MSH just brings a lot more AOE pressure for the warband alongside some great debuff (Bad Gas!) and utility tools (Outta My Way!, KABOOM!, Sticky Squigz). No one will take a rSH over a MSH in a (non-city) warband if they have the choice in the matter.

in warband (unelss braindead zergband) a ranged SH is better. It can peel off enemy healers/caster way easier than melee SH helping the whole warband out a lot. Healdebuff on demand and burst on enemy healers is a good warband pressure. for aoe there are way better options (choppa and sorc). no need to clog it.

[Paxsanarion]

Great Guide! Thank you so much for it! With the recent changes to BO have any of the Shield tank builds changed?

[leftayparxoun]

Great Guide! Thank you so much for it! With the recent changes to BO have any of the Shield tank builds changed?

Thanks for the question!

Black Orc indeed has no changes to their warband build, but they do have some rotation changes (which aren't in the scope of the guide).
Specifically, they should be weaving in ''Tuffer Nails'' to provide a 10% parry buff to their target (usually dps) and they can also pop ''Savin' Me Hide'' at any time now. In case you were considering using the ''No Choppin' Me'' tactic to further buff ''Tuffer Nails'', feel free to check out the Black Orc section of our patch note breakdown to read up on why that is not such a good idea:
Breakdown of Patch Notes 23/10/2024

I had considered updating the guide's changelog to write down that there are no changes to the BO builds in this patch, but in the end I decided against it.

[Paxsanarion]

Thank you

[Phantasm]

Spoiler:

Great Guide! Thank you so much for it! With the recent changes to BO have any of the Shield tank builds changed?

Thanks for the question!

Black Orc indeed has no changes to their warband build, but they do have some rotation changes (which aren't in the scope of the guide).
Specifically, they should be weaving in ''Tuffer Nails'' to provide a 10% parry buff to their target (usually dps) and they can also pop ''Savin' Me Hide'' at any time now. In case you were considering using the ''No Choppin' Me'' tactic to further buff ''Tuffer Nails'', feel free to check out the Black Orc section of our patch note breakdown to read up on why that is not such a good idea:
Breakdown of Patch Notes 23/10/2024

I had considered updating the guide's changelog to write down that there are no changes to the BO builds in this patch, but in the end I decided against it.

Awesome Breakdown of patch notes!
Thats big help for people who dont follow all patchnotes text, sometimes misunderstand what devs really wanted to say or for people like me - whos english isnt native language so any help with explaining what patchnotes really mean is HUGE.

[iagdtod]

Thanks for setting it all out. Some minor queries or suggestions about Chosen. The lini with you suggest with toughness I don't think will stack with the tough aura. You may be better off with a the anti crit damage and hp lini, or the ws (even after nerf) and anti to be crit lini or even a wounds lini. Unless you're not using tough aura which would be interesting. For weapons the tier down from anathema is arguably better (you lose 3 wounds, 1 tough, 19 str and gain 20 hp) but mainly you're saving crests going with the lower tier, I think definitely by the anathema axe last. If you find any of the full sov tanks feel squishy, don't forget flawless armour -10 to be crit helps, not sure if it's worth it over the ap tactic but I don't find I run out of ap between zealot and ap aura. Niche but if you get two chosens in one party and one is full sov you can run one chosen with the double 13 point build, just for the fun of it. Something like this: RoR.builders - Chosen

[leftayparxoun]

Thanks for setting it all out. Some minor queries or suggestions about Chosen. The lini with you suggest with toughness I don't think will stack with the tough aura. You may be better off with a the anti crit damage and hp lini, or the ws (even after nerf) and anti to be crit lini or even a wounds lini. Unless you're not using tough aura which would be interesting. For weapons the tier down from anathema is arguably better (you lose 3 wounds, 1 tough, 19 str and gain 20 hp) but mainly you're saving crests going with the lower tier, I think definitely by the anathema axe last. If you find any of the full sov tanks feel squishy, don't forget flawless armour -10 to be crit helps, not sure if it's worth it over the ap tactic but I don't find I run out of ap between zealot and ap aura. Niche but if you get two chosens in one party and one is full sov you can run one chosen with the double 13 point build, just for the fun of it. Something like this: RoR.builders - Chosen

Thanks for the comment!

The reasoning behind the liniment of choice is this:

• As we also state in the ''About'' section of the guide, our aim is to provide liniment suggestions that are affordable (no Butchering/200 container cultivating). This means that while stuff like + TOU/WS - Chance to be crit will be better than what we suggest, they will also be more expensive to use (especially for new players). We will probably update all the liniment sections with the more expensive options at a later time though.

It should be noted that the TOU buff from the liniment does, indeed, not stack with the TOU aura, but in many cases you don't end up using the latter (more on that later). Pure TOU pots are better (e.g. +80 TOU) but they are currently limited in quantity and are more expensive in the AH (1g 10 silver each compared to 98 silver for Savage Vigor liniment). Similarly, WOU buffs from affordable liniments such as War:Hunger also do not stack with Black Orc's Da Toughest War Bellow buff, but are something to consider.


As for the main hand weapon, you are correct in that the stat gains from the upgrade are minimal so we went ahead and left the option for the upgrade only to the tank BIS builds (together with a warning to get it last).


Next, regarding the 4th tactic of choice being ''Power from the Gods'' (self AP pump):

That tactic is there to ensure almost permanent uptime for Hold the Line. This is especially needed in scenarios where you cannot afford to have an AP aura in the party, as you'll see next or you are lacking an AP pump from the side of the healers. In case the AP aura is present or you have other party AP pumps (e.g. Zealot's) we've just changed the guide to recommend either the -10% chance to be crit tactic or the Dire Shielding tactic (at BIS, when survival isn't a concern).

Continuing from there, regarding the build you proposed; the magical party shield can be nice, but the 3 s silence on Tzeetnch's Reflexion can potentially mess up channel drops (on Mara kd). This is why we don't generally recommend it (in the scenario you mentioned), but it is something to consider.


Finally, regarding what I hinted earlier about the TOU and the AP Auras not always being available:

• When leading warbands I first like to try and use all available Chosens to maximize debuffs to enemies (with the exception of Resist Aura if needed).

• Only if the list of mandatory Debuff Auras is ''filled'', should the Chosens then opt to use Buff Auras for their individual parties. After all, debuffing 24 is usually more useful than buffing 6.

After your reply, I decided to write down the decision flowchart for Aura usage in warbands and I also added it to the guide. Take a look:


As you can see, the TOU aura is on the lower end of the Debuff Aura priority list because of 2 reasons:

• DPS Vanquisher and Triumphant 4pc procs already have a good chance (15%) to debuff enemy TOU, which means really good uptime on the enemy warband when the dps are AOEing.

• Black Orcs (which are very prominent nowdays) can also provide a TOU party buff via both ''Savin' Me Hide'' (that just got easier to use) and via Da Biggest! War Bellow slot machine, if they are using it.

And while the Toughness Aura is, in my opinion, the second most important Buff Aura (as you can see in the bottom list in the image), the Debuff Auras must be filled first. If there are 4 or even less Chosens in the wb, this often leads to 2 or more groups not having access to the TOU Aura. This is why TOU pots/linis aren't usually a bad idea. Especially in Pug wbs.

Hope I managed to answer all your points. Thanks once again for the feedback

[iagdtod]

Nice reasoning and good to see the perspective of how to make the warband work. Nice work and thanks for the explanation. And I agree on the tzeentch reflection and needing to be careful when to use so as not to mess with the mara ae kd.