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Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

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geraldtarrant
Posts: 254

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#81 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:12 pm

Maby for testing purposes would be nice to have even more gttc ;p
I think giving slayers gttc in exchange of rampage/id would be funny to see.
I wonder who would complain than tho.
Muschroom / Gloom / Iznoogood
Orz Guild
Nr1 Sorc Preaseason1 Solo, Nr1 Sorc Season3 Group

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Tyrodan
Posts: 79

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#82 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pm

Farrul wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 pm Nice trolling. 3 solid points were made and each one of them facts that can easily be verified if anyone has doubts by just logging an Order toon and playing the actual game. As for the ''funny note'' (1) i do no care if you believe it or not as it is not central to the topic anyways, that you exclusively focus on it reveals your true agenda here(derailing ).
Don't see any "solid" points yet. The first one is simply a bug. It has been stated several times in this thread by several people, that pulling through walls is a bug and should be fixed. No one argues about that.

Regarding the 3rd point I was a bit confused. Granted I haven't been pulled a lot, but by how you describe it, I figured it would be burned in my memory the few times it happened, so I tried to find some evidence for you. Is "It completely messes up the angle of the camera, e.g it will point towards the sky/ground or be zoomed in creating a lot of confusion, this alone kills." referring to this?

If yes: lmao

If no: might be an ui issue on your side.

Not sure what the 2nd point should prove in regard to choppa pull being op. You just assume that being pulled directly to the choppa is a death sentence in itself and act like it proves itself. Btw the video shows that this isn't even 100% correct. When mdpv gets pulled on short distance he even lands a bit behind the choppa. It looks like you're being pulled to the position where the choppa where, when the pull affected you. Are you sure mara and wl-pull work any different?

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#83 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:30 pm

Earthcake wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:56 pm I can help with the destro tanks > order tanks

On my chosen i got 50% parry without any renown nor parry gear. It's just there, for free, cause i look good.
On my BO, I press a button and get 50% block, again just cause i look strong.
Destro tanks got better defenses, better morale gen, better CC.

I got a 1.6 KDA on my chosen playing snb almost all the time. The day they remove rampage i go 75% parry and never die again ,ever. And it's the same for other destro tanks. WHILE having better CC and faster morale.

tldr : except CD reduction, destro tanks do everything better.
Not for free. It requires a tactic. To block on a tank that has zero ways to increase blocking via career spec/abilities. And its a 5 second duration for an extra 25% parry rate. You are hard cherry picking here without bringing up all the ways other tanks have built in ways to reduce damage. Knight gets a free armor buff that goes way above armor pots, and with a tactic can increase parry by 15% on top of their free 10% block increase ability. High parry rate does zero toward mitigating ranged damage, so increasing block is superior to parry, no? Or the fact that they can buff healing received on their group. Or that they can take half damage from ALL sources. How does destro hard counter all that with one ability like Order does? oh wait...
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#84 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:42 pm

wanna compare tanks?
kobs easily best grp buff tank in game
ib parry and crit buffs make slayer even harder to contain
and guess what one of da most OP stuff in game: WoDS

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#85 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:44 pm

Detangler wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:30 pm
Not for free. It requires a tactic. To block on a tank that has zero ways to increase blocking via career spec/abilities. And its a 5 second duration for an extra 25% parry rate. You are hard cherry picking here without bringing up all the ways other tanks have built in ways to reduce damage. Knight gets a free armor buff that goes way above armor pots, and with a tactic can increase parry by 15% on top of their free 10% block increase ability. High parry rate does zero toward mitigating ranged damage, so increasing block is superior to parry, no? Or the fact that they can buff healing received on their group. Or that they can take half damage from ALL sources. How does destro hard counter all that with one ability like Order does? oh wait...
No I'm not, destro tanks would be invincible without rampage.
And there is a reason why destro only whines about slayers : others order dps just plain suck and are not a threat.

kotbs half damage is for 10sec it's not up all the time or whenever you want like chosen or BO defenses...

And about the +healing that is always brought up here, order NEEDS more damage and more healing since they play less than destro.
Destro got far better CC so order players play less than destro, and you don't want them to output more when they can actually play ?

I don't know if the % are right tho, maybe they are overtuned, but order NEEDS more dmg/healing than destro to be competitive.
Be it 2% or 20% or whatever value, i don't know.

Btw, I'm not saying remove gtdc, it's a CC so it's part of destro strenghts, if it gets removed, then maybe order doesn't need more output anymore.
just saying destro tanks ARE stronger, cause well, they are.

Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#86 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:51 pm

Sofong wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:42 pm
Spoiler:
wanna compare tanks?
kobs easily best grp buff tank in game
ib parry and crit buffs make slayer even harder to contain
and guess what one of da most OP stuff in game: WoDS
Can't Hit Me! - Block WoDS with more damage
#AllClassesMatter

“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

― John Burroughs

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Butzinjo
Posts: 48

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#87 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:55 pm

The problem in this thread is, that we are all discussing from our point off view. And so we come with a bug to a "ballance discussion" wich only exists because this ability pulls people throught walls what generally is a bug ;) and it ***** up ur cameraview (thats an argument). Would we talk about this ability if it worked proberly? That ability that has it best use in catching people running away or giving "free imunity"?

So "rampage" is not op because destro generally has enought/ "better" tanks, on the other side if destro has "rampage" it would be op because order is massively lacking of tanks, hmmm? Or did i understand that wrong?

At the end of the Day, we are all biased whether we play just one side or both sides...

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#88 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:01 pm

Everdin wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:51 pm
Sofong wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:42 pm
Spoiler:
wanna compare tanks?
kobs easily best grp buff tank in game
ib parry and crit buffs make slayer even harder to contain
and guess what one of da most OP stuff in game: WoDS
Can't Hit Me! - Block WoDS with more damage
Most op tac. was shammy Run Away 🤣

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Farrul
Posts: 282

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#89 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:15 pm

Tyrodan wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pm
Don't see any "solid" points yet. The first one is simply a bug. It has been stated several times in this thread by several people, that pulling through walls is a bug and should be fixed. No one argues about that.
The reason i created this thread is because of the frequency of this occurring, obviously due to how many choppas there are spamming the ability. You can downplay the issue as it suits you but the fact of the matter is that this ''simply a bug'' is not getting a well deserved fix ''nerf'' ( hence suggesting it should be deleted/replaced if it can never be fixed).

Tyrodan wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pmRegarding the 3rd point I was a bit confused. Granted I haven't been pulled a lot, but by how you describe it, I figured it would be burned in my memory the few times it happened, so I tried to find some evidence for you. Is "It completely messes up the angle of the camera, e.g it will point towards the sky/ground or be zoomed in creating a lot of confusion, this alone kills." referring to this?
Dont have any UI issues elsewhere and the Mara pull has never caused this(neither the Magus one) and i've seen other players complain about the same thing(in-game and on this forum). In fact this particular Pull has caused many weird occurrences which i did not mention here(such as falling into the ''void'').

The thing is that you need to play sufficently Order to notice it, these bugs won't manifest all the time but once they do it's detrimental (camera can easily result in death, i've died 100s of times due to it during my 1.5 years playing on this server, again always due to a Choppa performing that Pull)
Tyrodan wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pmNot sure what the 2nd point should prove in regard to choppa pull being op. You just assume that being pulled directly to the choppa is a death sentence in itself and act like it proves itself. Btw the video shows that this isn't even 100% correct. When mdpv gets pulled on short distance he even lands a bit behind the choppa. It looks like you're being pulled to the position where the choppa where, when the pull affected you. Are you sure mara and wl-pull work any different?
I don't wish to explain the same thing again with different words so i'll quote myself as to why this ability is imbalanced: (and yes 100% certain mara/wl positions you infront of them with a chance of escape, playing a WL to rr 84 )

'' The only balance nerf is in point (2) which indeed is broken, pulls are already annoying do deal with but at least other pulls give you a chance to respond(mara/wl) as they position the target in front of them, not right at their feets(choppa)which is imbalanced because of body collision(getting stuck). ''

It's in effect a death sentence if you get stuck in a blob due to it(i've experienced it from the point of view of multiple toons and different roles/perspectives, i.e deftard SnB IB tank just disappearing in the blob with no heals in the world able to save him)

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Tanski
Posts: 230

Re: Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

Post#90 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:36 pm

PSA if you can damage a choppa thru said wall/floor they can pull you…

Choppa pull is literally only good in funnels or running people down, otherwise just a great way to give tanks free immunities and just be annoying to both sides
75+ BG
80 Choppa/slyer
80 wl
70 + sm
70 bw/sorc
80 wh, we
60 sham/am

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