Keep Sieges - Defending Top Floor

[abezverkhiy]

Hey guys,

I have always been an advocate of defending bottom floor during keep sieges but as I see often people going to defend top floor I want to understand - why?

Yesterday we defended keep in BFP, we were slightly outnumbered between 0% and 40% so we had chances to defend. But everyone rushed to defend top floor. And initially they were successful - defended first attack but then second attack came. I tried to argue - to win you need to have doors restored and this only happens when Lord is untouched for 10 min which in turn is not achievable if you give away Lord Room. So defending top is a path to nowhere. I tried to explain this but nobody listened. This second attack wiped us and we lost.

So my question to you - can you enlighten me how defenders can win by sitting on the top floor?

[Strakar]

This is a play to salvage some rp, there is no intention to hold the keep.

Sounds like if you wiped holding 3rd floor you were never going to hold bottom.

Not sure which side you were but destro has a clear disadvantage in keep sieges and forts. Anything less than even AAO unless you have a majority of organized players is a wipe. Not sure why but playing each side it's amazing how order can hold and destro crumbles in comparable situations.

[Sulorie]

Those people want to farm a few more kills, while most attackers will just hit lord and not rush upstairs.
A push back and attacker wipe almost never works, if defender goes 3rd floor. Basically, you admit you already lost keep and just want to get some contribution or rp by getting a few kills.

[wonshot]

The logic behind a topfloor hold, is when you are so outnumbered that you cant cover postern + maingate as the attackers are simply too many. But yeah on Live servers especially Karak Norn, top floor holds were usually to break the frontline, and then do a counterpush. A strategy that I personally never really saw follow over to RoR.

On paper breaking a frontline from the attackers if you succesfully hold, while the rest of their force are now exposed on the ramp in the 2nd line, while their forces are split between killing lord and blocking eachother on the ramp should give momentum in some 3rd floor defences. Just requires momentum, leadership and 2-2-2 setup.

[abezverkhiy]

We were 2 wbs defending the keep. We were fighting against a similar number of Dessies, maybe they were outnumbering us by a small margin. Our numbers were enough to hold the bottom, I did it many times. The problem was some jarheads who lead people upstairs. People do not think, they just follow like lemmings.

[Vri]

Top floor, for RP and when you know another WB is inc to help with keep D.

[Evilspinnre]

Not sure which side you were but destro has a clear disadvantage in keep sieges and forts.

What makes you say this? I am an order main and I strongly disagree. Order RDPS means people get melted inside and outside of keeps, it is much easier for order in sieges and forts. If either side has 3+ organised warbands inside a keep or fort then they should defend it.

[Martok]

I have always been an advocate of defending bottom floor during keep sieges but as I see often people going to defend top floor I want to understand - why?

As someone else stated the third-floor defense is most often an attempt to drag out the affair and rack-up whatever kills can be had from the effort. However I agree with you, and have also advocated the attempt to hold the bottom floor as the first-best choice. If you hold, most logically you would garner more RR than from a third-floor effort. If you wipe, well, you were probably going to wipe regardless but then you can roam the area and pick-off their stragglers or other groups running around. Or lay a trap somewhere for when the attackers split to claim the BO's. Defending a keep isn't always the best option.

So my question to you - can you enlighten me how defenders can win by sitting on the top floor?

On occasion defending the upper deck can prove useful. An example. A few days ago (and I think the video of this is still up on my Twitch page) Destruction conducted an upper-deck defense of the Fort. The numbers were close, so they waited until the Fort Lord was almost down and timed their attack to that moment. They came pouring down the ramp in good order and came close to saving their Lord. It was, on that occasion, a good effort.

[BeautfulToad]

lord room defence can work well, but not seen it for months/years

3rd floor is rr farm tactic, and not stupid but - yes - you wont stop the flip

[DirkDaring]

While third floor does work on occasion, 90% of the time it is fail, and they are basically giving up the keep, in exchange for trying to farm a few kills.

I have always preferred a Lord room defense, or a bottom floor defense, both have the best chance of success. One thing we used to do on live, back when Renown rank was still capped at 80. we would have 2 or 3 groups defend the lord room, and the rest normally a warband, would wait on walls where the inner oil is, and when door dropped, and oil was destroyed, as soon as enemy charged in.

everyone not defending lord room dropped, and flanked them on the stairs, using collision, to have tanks, melee dps trapped at the top of stairs, while the flank, crushed their squishy healers, casters in the rear.

This tactic was highly effective on Dark Crag as destro, several times we wiped 140 + order zerg attacking the keep with less then 40 of us defending.

You can also drop and sandwich them between inner, and outer doors, while a lot are in the murder hall, with tanks, melee in front, defenders staying back far enough from the murder hall, to let some get into courtyard but still by the outer door hallway, while another warband drops from outer wall, and takes out their backline support trying to get thru the hallways past outer man door.

Always annoying when people shout 3rd floor, because 3rd floor is mostly fail.