The elephant in the room

[M0rw47h]

I understand but a 5 second interruptable 25ft channel from retribution from a slayer during a shatterable 20 second ability is not going to cause you to die to guard damage, its you sitting in the blob that is.

Not sure if you're serious, but a) nobody is dying to a single Slayer, b) Retri is just cherry on top of multiple IDs, covered with Onslaughts, c) you do AoE drops on any smaller or bigger group of dps / healers you intend to kill, tank is supposed to guard his dps/healers and not "avoid" enemies, it has nothing with "blobs", d) ID has same range as guard, thus you always take ID + ID guard damage if its on person you're guarding and Slayer has Rampage on.

If you easily shatter the rampage then the guard damage is defendable or hope your healers cleanse the ailments since they don't have cooldowns on cleanses either with BO/Choppa stack warbands. if you are a tank taking a lot of guard damage as well as aoe damage because you are in the blob, that has little to do with unbalanced mechanics, just bad positioning.

Don't have cooldowns? Because Slayers ain't using their Shatter Limbs? How many GCDs it takes to remove stuff applied by mutiple Slayers at once (Ons->SL->ID) or just chained (Ons->SL) with one DoK per party (Zealot can't cleanse it, neither he has AoE cleanse)? And, no nobody cares about Slayers who just drop SL/ID randomly without covering it properly with other aliment.

In fact, people aren't even complaining as much about things on order. It's just order making pointless whining threads about various stuff, while history of balance here is mainly destro nerfs over and over. Truth is, if NGE+LOB can beat TUP+Phalanx then game is quite balanced and order losing more is just skill/coordination issue, not "destro bias".

[emiliorv]

With BO/Choppa stacked warbands, rampage is easily removed, just stand behind the slayer and spam your shatter enchantment, retribution is only 25ft aoe so you can still be in guard range without being affected by it directly, and ID is cleanable by healers since they may have no CD on their cleanse ability either.

Destro morale is easily removed, just use AM to pump kotbs and use solar flare.
(You can add a BW specced for morale drain M4 and selfpump)

Am would have to focus heal the knight only most of the time, solar flare is only 30ft, which means you lose a healer that could be helping keep the bw up because bw are generally lucky to even have m2 before they die against good Destro pre-mades. Black orcs and chosens would still have M4 before the knight would if you also had a shammy using their morale pump.

With the obvious healing advantage that order have dont see the problem to dedicate 1 AM to morale pump. if you let your BWs die its your own problem, defend them better...

[detrap]

Not sure if you're serious, but a) nobody is dying to a single Slayer, b) Retri is just cherry on top of multiple IDs, covered with Onslaughts, c) you do AoE drops on any smaller or bigger group of dps / healers you intend to kill, tank is supposed to guard his dps/healers and not "avoid" enemies, it has nothing with "blobs", d) ID has same range as guard, thus you always take ID + ID guard damage if its on person you're guarding and Slayer has Rampage on.

If you easily shatter the rampage then the guard damage is defendable or hope your healers cleanse the ailments since they don't have cooldowns on cleanses either with BO/Choppa stack warbands. if you are a tank taking a lot of guard damage as well as aoe damage because you are in the blob, that has little to do with unbalanced mechanics, just bad positioning.

Don't have cooldowns? Because Slayers ain't using their Shatter Limbs? How many GCDs it takes to remove stuff applied by mutiple Slayers at once (Ons->SL->ID) or just chained (Ons->SL) with one DoK per party (Zealot can't cleanse it, neither he has AoE cleanse)? And, no nobody cares about Slayers who just drop SL/ID randomly without covering it properly with other aliment.

In fact, people aren't even complaining as much about things on order. It's just order making pointless whining threads about various stuff, while history of balance here is mainly destro nerfs over and over. Truth is, if NGE+LOB can beat TUP+Phalanx then game is quite balanced and order losing more is just skill/coordination issue, not "destro bias".

Shamans can aoe cleanse ID's with no cd and shatter limbs doesn't work on single targets if all your healers a spread apart.

Thread is about morale pumps and it ruining the experience of end game content, you should not lose a city when you are dominating on kills. I would like to see tanks do more than just spam block channel to M4 every minute for 30 minutes straight and then M3 drop every minute on the Lord in stage 3.

[emiliorv]

you should not lose a city when you are dominating on kills.

That is a problem of the city mechanic itself...make a proposal to remove the pve component from city and make a full deathmatch arena, instead you made the 0'990859803745934851 thread to nerf destro/buff order..

Question:
-Should you lose a SC if you are dominating in kills??
-Should you lose a RVR lock if you are dominating in kills?

just asking...

[M0rw47h]

Shamans can aoe cleanse ID's with no cd and shatter limbs doesn't work on single targets if all your healers a spread apart.

Shamans are generaly as amazing as AMs in Warbands, just a bit easier to pull with extra CDR. You "want" them, but not too many.

Thread is about morale pumps and it ruining the experience of end game content, you should not lose a city when you are dominating on kills. I would like to see tanks do more than just spam block channel to M4 every minute for 30 minutes straight and then M3 drop every minute on the Lord in stage 3.

I agree on this part. Easiest fix would be decide stage 3 by kills if neither side can deal with champions in time (including kills from previous stages if both sides decide to turtle).

[fabrizio3k]

You can bring a WH specced to morale drain everything in a radius but they’re laughed out of warbands so...

That is irrelevant in terms of balance, because witch elves have a similar ability. If you have a witch elf and witch hunter on each side with morale drain, then the destro tanks still reach m4 a lot faster than order tanks.

I can see your point even if I have no knowledge of the feasibility of a morale draining WE. Looks like she doesn’t have WH defensive tools so it looks more like a kamikaze spec

[detrap]

Shamans can aoe cleanse ID's with no cd and shatter limbs doesn't work on single targets if all your healers a spread apart.

Shamans are generaly as amazing as AMs in Warbands, just a bit easier to pull with extra CDR. You "want" them, but not too many.

Thread is about morale pumps and it ruining the experience of end game content, you should not lose a city when you are dominating on kills. I would like to see tanks do more than just spam block channel to M4 every minute for 30 minutes straight and then M3 drop every minute on the Lord in stage 3.

I agree on this part. Easiest fix would be decide stage 3 by kills if neither side can deal with champions in time (including kills from previous stages if both sides decide to turtle).

100% agree

[detrap]

you should not lose a city when you are dominating on kills.

That is a problem of the city mechanic itself...make a proposal to remove the pve component from city and make a full deathmatch arena, instead you made the 0'990859803745934851 thread to nerf destro/buff order..

Question:
-Should you lose a SC if you are dominating in kills??
-Should you lose a RVR lock if you are dominating in kills?

just asking...

I do enjoy the panic 'dps race on lord' as the game has to end somehow right? It's just the way it's been achieved is what needs addressing to make it more fun.

[kmark101]

Today in last fort in 3 order wb there were 4 tanks total combined (4/72 just to avoid any confusion)... but keep telling yourself that order tanks are fine and "more order healing is balancing it out"

[skylinx]

Borc best defensive overplayed tank either side

Vs

AM squishiest most underplayed target dummy with useless career mechanic

Another good order vs destro comparison