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Order is the new chaos?

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Ysaran
Posts: 1219

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#91 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:38 pm

M0rw47h wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:34 pm
Ysaran wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:33 pm totally agree, lockout shouldn't be there at all. It was actually nice when you could get +50% if you switched to the lower populous side
You still can.
there's still the +50% exp/rp buff for switching? heven't noticed, i will keep an eye open for that! althought is quite difficult to xrealm since the one and a half hour lockout
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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#92 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:40 pm

M0rw47h wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:34 pm
Ysaran wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:33 pm totally agree, lockout shouldn't be there at all. It was actually nice when you could get +50% if you switched to the lower populous side
You still can.
but its more complicated if half your team is locked out, so you cannot change back and forth like in the past.
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Phantasm
Posts: 674

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#93 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 pm

is there any website or database compiled showing every class numbers? I wonder is that disparition between order tank - mdps - rdps - heal is really an issue or it just comes to level of organisation and self set goals.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#94 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:47 pm

+50% for underdogs, -25% for overpopulated side for 2 hours after login but no xrealm lock might give an incentive but players will find new ways to abuse it I am sure.

I do like 8h faction lockout that end days live had since it forced you to stick to one side thru good and bad and at least try to fight your way but that was Karak Norn (and Badlands but Americans had more ST free roam style server back then), nowadays it'd take months of hard work to get people to get their battlefield awareness and instincts on point (I don't mean veterans, just people with less than a year of playtime under their belts - very generally speaking).
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#95 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:48 pm

Phantasm wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 pm is there any website or database compiled showing every class numbers? I wonder is that disparition between order tank - mdps - rdps - heal is really an issue or it just comes to level of organisation and self set goals.
WL BG Slayer SM and Ib are least played classes as far as I am aware (someone has forum topic on it), so situation is very bad

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Phantasm
Posts: 674

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#96 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:53 pm

Sundowner wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:48 pm
Phantasm wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 pm is there any website or database compiled showing every class numbers? I wonder is that disparition between order tank - mdps - rdps - heal is really an issue or it just comes to level of organisation and self set goals.
WL BG Slayer SM and Ib are least played classes as far as I am aware (someone has forum topic on it), so situation is very bad
Thats the thing, for last year I play only in organised guilds and 99% rvr so I see planty of WLs, IBs SMs, and SLs. And then I start reading forums and ppl complain having too many engis, SWs and BWs. Just wanna know and see on own eyes if that true.
So if someone seen any kind of database or compilation for that pls let me know.

Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#97 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:04 pm

Phantasm wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:53 pm
Sundowner wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:48 pm
Phantasm wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 pm is there any website or database compiled showing every class numbers? I wonder is that disparition between order tank - mdps - rdps - heal is really an issue or it just comes to level of organisation and self set goals.
WL BG Slayer SM and Ib are least played classes as far as I am aware (someone has forum topic on it), so situation is very bad
Thats the thing, for last year I play only in organised guilds and 99% rvr so I see planty of WLs, IBs SMs, and SLs. And then I start reading forums and ppl complain having too many engis, SWs and BWs. Just wanna know and see on own eyes if that true.
So if someone seen any kind of database or compilation for that pls let me know.
as I said it was end of 2020 results. I don't really seen WL, IBs and SLs in comparison to sw/engies. Look at pug WBs or peak hour scens. recently leveled t1, there was 1-2 WLs when there always were plenty of them.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#98 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:19 pm

wonshot wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 pm [conclusion]
Order as a realm did for some reason end up being "harder" to pug on, compared to destro. The archtype imbalance would by my guess as to why.
Good balanced setups can win on both sides, both realms have their winconditions and different playstyles over the other realm and this is natural when its a none mirrored game.
I dont think this cultural change will come from the Devs, I can't see how they would even attempt to tacle this issue on Order. It needs to come from within.
So for any order pug player out there, know that there is hope. But it takes effort. Look to your realmmates, join groups guild and alliances with good setups.
There are plenty of guilds out there who are dieing to get new blood and help them fill out their rosters and most of their approach are nothing more than setting up a playdate 2hours two times a week and listen on a discord channel while you get to guard people near you, heal allies who are not out of range and you dont get to solo heal a party. Sounds lovely doesnt it? :D

Nothing about this situation will change from the outside, it starts with YOU Order-realm and it is long overdue.

As much as we all want to think it is some big brained reason why order can't do what destro does, I think it all boils down to AoE. What i mean by this is most of your average pug players are looking for some class that they can zerg surf with aoe or easily farm renown without putting in much effort. Why does this cause a problem between realms? If you look at what classes can do aoe well on order you have Slayer, WL, BW, Engie, SW. If you look at what classes can do aoe well on Destro you have, Choppa, Mara, Msh, Magus, Sorc.

Order has 2 mdps that can aoe well and 3 ranged. Destro is the opposite with 3 mdps and 2 ranged that can aoe well. Naturally you will see more classes that can aoe because right now that has been the meta since the aoe cap change. This is also part of the problem with the lack of tanks on order compared to destro. Knight and Chosen have aoe through auras and core abilities. BO 2 handed can aoe better than SM being that Da Big un is core and the SM has to spec for its aoe all though it isn't restricted to 2handed most SM are not going to run it as SnB. BG has Spammable aoe as long as they have hate to spend and can do it as 2handed or SnB but IB is limited in this department and one having the requirement of Shield to do it and has a limit of 5 targets.

I really don't think most players are thinking about synergy when making a class, they more likely saw one person who was good at the class top the charts in a SC or City and look at the skills the class gets and see it has some aoe that they can spam so they go and roll the class. This why we have tanks that don't guard and healers that don't heal. It is the aoe Meta that has turned the game into what we have now.
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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#99 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:45 pm

I'm surprised that noone mentioned yet one of the most important reason why Order lacks tanks (and that starts the whole bad setup chain reaction). It's actually very simple.

My theory has always been that even tanks need to have a spec to be able to do some damage (in every game, to keep it healthy). Black ork is greatest example and explain why it is super popular, it's the best designed (tank) class in the game but not because of it's utility.

Regardless of any utilities you have, there must be a spec/build that once in a while you can go and wreck havoc with, otherwise people just get bored playing only "utilities". This is axiom one.

So while tank damage sounds like a negligible topic, it is actually the root of all order's problem: because MMO players mostly, inevitably interested about damage, doing damage (not soaking), that's everyone's nature... now its cool that to be able to function well you do minimal damage, strap on a shield and help your mates... thats cool for 95% of your playtime... but that remaining 5%, where you just want to join an SC and smash people hard... that is whats missing from order tanks... and that's why ppl dont play order tanks. It's an extremely important aspect of the game and it clearly explains why for example knight population drops massively after nerfs like Runefangs and why Chosen population skyrockets after buffs like full spirit damage.

It's no surprise that black orks are the best tanks in the game, it's exactly for this reason, it has the perfect amount of utility, survivability, etc.. BUT also the perfect amount of damage if they spec for it once in a blue moon... so this keeps players motivated to keep playing them even outside of strict guild wb hours of snb'ing.
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Bergbart
Posts: 45

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#100 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:21 pm

this^^ I want romper stomper to 40 than turtle 60++ after geting good equipp want romper stomper again.
Kotbs is Boring.
Ironbreaker has good options but not enough
The Sm can make good damage but it feels other than bo.(Style).

Give Ib tree hit Combo and i play one:P

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