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Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:36 am
by Mystry
Play a KoTBS with a shield, or a WP or RP healer. Don't bother with anything else.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:04 am
by crabsmack
Starting on Order and wanted to make a tank anyway. Is there a meaningful difference in how desired Swordmaster is vs. KotBS? I'm fine using shield and playing full tank on either
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:03 am
by Wam
crabsmack wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:04 am
Starting on Order and wanted to make a tank anyway. Is there a meaningful difference in how desired Swordmaster is vs. KotBS? I'm fine using shield and playing full tank on either
a good kotbs is the backbone of any team... despite heavy nerfs its still the best tank and first choice for group... then its either a SM or IB to compliment them and the setup you are aiming for
Kotbs is a bit more dynamic, easy to play/learn if you have simple understanding of mechanics and how a tank should play... the fact it can get a juicy knockback puts it above the SM... (you want to knock enemy tanks away from their guarded target so your dps can burst them down etc)
SM kb is very bad, and the mechanic is a bit clunky... that said it has some nice utility, and crazy good healing for a tank, and the potential for a more dps 2h build... kotbs is just utility its not built to do dmg in comparison.
Kotbs brings + healing to group, + resistances (counter to chosen) and other buffs... +Crit to team... and can be fairly tanky.
If you are "soloing" current end game... a SM will be better pick due to the healing it can bring (if spec correct) the fact good sm's can outheal bad healers is nice meme but happen too often... but if you are looking for any group player then kotbs > sm imo... all tanks are pretty good in this game just different flavours and specialty.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:27 am
by Asherdoom
Wam wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:03 am
crabsmack wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:04 am
Starting on Order and wanted to make a tank anyway. Is there a meaningful difference in how desired Swordmaster is vs. KotBS? I'm fine using shield and playing full tank on either
a good kotbs is the backbone of any team... despite heavy nerfs its still the best tank and first choice for group... then its either a SM or IB to compliment them and the setup you are aiming for
Kotbs is a bit more dynamic, easy to play/learn if you have simple understanding of mechanics and how a tank should play... the fact it can get a juicy knockback puts it above the SM... (you want to knock enemy tanks away from their guarded target so your dps can burst them down etc)
SM kb is very bad, and the mechanic is a bit clunky... that said it has some nice utility, and crazy good healing for a tank, and the potential for a more dps 2h build... kotbs is just utility its not built to do dmg in comparison.
Kotbs brings + healing to group, + resistances (counter to chosen) and other buffs... +Crit to team... and can be fairly tanky.
If you are "soloing" current end game... a SM will be better pick due to the healing it can bring (if spec correct) the fact good sm's can outheal bad healers is nice meme but happen too often... but if you are looking for any group player then kotbs > sm imo... all tanks are pretty good in this game just different flavours and specialty.
SM got also a nice buff stacking and if you play it 2handed still is very interesting in my opinion.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:42 pm
by Gurf
SM is basically needed in Warband for one reason only which is Whispering Wind, and the classes which benefit most are SW and AM, to such an extent that basically those Elf classes need a SM to perform at a high level. So if you are in a Warband who knows how to sync their classes properly SM is very important.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:48 pm
by Aethilmar
Gurf wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:42 pm
SM is basically needed in Warband for one reason only which is Whispering Wind, and the classes which benefit most are SW and AM, to such an extent that basically those Elf classes need a SM to perform at a high level. So if you are in a Warband who knows how to sync their classes properly SM is very important.
This. Except also Slayer and RP find it useful as well.
The other comments about Swordmaster's virtues are straight up incorrect.
SM "healing" is a joke and a desperation move. Have I used it? Yes. Have I done 400k healing in a city with it. Yes. When we had one healer, who was getting focused the entire time and still managed to pull out 900k healing.
The 2-handed version of SM brings nothing to WB scale fights and, ironically, may be the worst 2-handed tank. It is only applicable for soloing and group fighting (read SCs/roaming) and is not even "necessary" there ... just sorta useful.
There is an argument to be made for Raking Talons being useful as well but it is merely meh especially since they nerfed the DT damage reduction.
I could go on but basically SM is a vanilla tank with a "mechanic" that doesn't help it in the slightest.
Go Knight unless you just happen to love Elves that much.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:47 pm
by StirlingScott
Aurandilaz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:47 am
Almost no demand:
-dps AM, good for sologameplay
-dps WP, could do something, not really popular
-dps RP, kinda got nerfhammered a bit too much
-Witch Hunter, ok 1v1 melee class, you can probably play solo, unless you have connections you probably won't be getting invites
hahahaha love how the WH class is the only class listed under "No Demand". The others listed are only specs of classes which seem to have a "need" or "niche" filled with other trees or builds at their disposal.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:35 pm
by Mystry
StirlingScott wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:47 pm
hahahaha love how the WH class is the only class listed under "No Demand". The others listed are only specs of classes which seem to have a "need" or "niche" filled with other trees or builds at their disposal.
Yes, it's pretty amusing. Here's a revised, accurate list:
High Demand:
KoTBS, TANK ONLY
WP, HEALER ONLY
RP, HEALER ONLY
Slayer
Low Demand:
All other tanks.
Zero Demand:
Everything else.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:22 am
by 7black
despite kotbs being the more preferred tank, having played one myself to around rr70 and full invader, i find myself wishing i had gone with SM or IB instead because of the additional mechanics required to play them and thus a higher skill ceiling involved. Kotbs is rather straight forward and can feel boring to play at times. It is a really good pick for someone just starting out, but if you are someone who can handle complex gameplay i would go with SM. They also look so cool with a shield.
Re: Most needed classes order-side and why are they lacking
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:26 am
by Mystry
7black wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:22 am
despite kotbs being the more preferred tank, having played one myself to around rr70 and full invader, i find myself wishing i had gone with SM or IB instead because of the additional mechanics required to play them and thus a higher skill ceiling involved. Kotbs is rather straight forward and can feel boring to play at times. It is a really good pick for someone just starting out, but if you are someone who can handle complex gameplay i would go with SM. They also look so cool with a shield.
You're not wrong, but IB/SM don't have auras, so they'll never be as wanted as KoTBS.