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If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

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Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#41 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:07 pm

wonshot wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:44 pm Pounces from the previous range just made it too easy to catch an immobile backline caster that needs to standstill, yes dot 'n run kiting will be even more safe now as they dont root themselves to stop and finish a hard-cast.
This change and reduction in the pounce seem to make midrange (less than 100feet) builds from SH and SW be a liiittle more safe to play, while they dont get overshadowed by 100feet range builds.
I didn't really see anything resembling bullying of casters from WL/SH in group play (if you solo sorc/bw of course WL or SH will destroy you), in group play if you don't choose right position or your tanks and healers are sleeping of course you will die. this is part of the game. Issue I have with this change is that main role of WL and mSH (aside from aoe) is to catch and kill casters, and 45ft range is just meh, it is better to run than pounce. Also adding 30ft pounce to WE that no one asked for is kinda strange.
Im sorry to say it, but the other mdps who havnt been spoiled with Charge, pull/fetch, lowranged M1 root, Ranged M2 snare(mSH) and pounce on top, would have to rely on their Charge and snarebreaker plus their singletarget melee snare to catch and stay on the immobile casters.
Maybe because other mdps have other tools? choppa/slayer have better damage, WE/WH have stealth, Mara has more utility and survivability. The distribution of balance between classes in RoR is assymetrical, meaning some classes are good at wb play, some at catching casters. WL or SH will never do more damage than choppa/sl (on average, I am not talking about slayers who do not know how to play), but they can jump to backlines, harass casters/healers better. it is RoRs game design and attempting to even out difference between classes will only bring bland classes in the end, and I don't think anyone wants that. Even devs said that they do not want copy-pasting abilities and similar classes, but then removed class defining feature from 2 classes and gave pounce to WE for no apparent reason.
Yes WL have been a known soloer for a long time on RoR, and it was honestly because it could get away with it.
I would personally hate if this becomes like Blackdesert Online where mobility is the norm and older and outdated classes are left behind as everyone is doing their flashy ninjamoves crawling on walls being spiderman and a frontline is nolonger a thing because everyone is flying and jumping all over the place.
Shammies, SHs and AMs are the best soloers now, because they can get away with it, what's wrong with that? also second part of your statement is strange, RoR is melee-ball dominated game, no one really saw 8 WL/mSH ninjajumping to casters deleting them. What you fear is more coming from adding pounce to WE other than not taking away class uniqueness from WL/SH.

In conclusion, was pounce so problematic outside solo roaming? I don't really think so, in WB you want to stay with MA and tank and assist aoe, in small-scale it merely gives you advantage of reaching target faster, which is off-setted by other mdps classes having other tools. Just straight up nerfing 2 classes when no one even complained about pounce is very strange move to me. Hope this changes will be reverted.

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puzzolamistica
Suspended
Posts: 49

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#42 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:09 pm

theoddone wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:04 pm
puzzolamistica wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:52 pm
Jinxypie wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:37 pm

Guess what,WL is a pet class. Play with your pet and you will have the pull as well.
wow u are probably a ''git gud'' smart azkaban prisoner :D
so can i have a 55%+ crit? can i have an aoe kd? can i have a 100%armor pen? can i have a drain ap? can i have an increase cd? can i have an healing debuff? can i have a bounce back whit aoe slow? can i have a frenzy that is not on 13 point spec? can i have a ranged pet? can i have a kd whiout lion?
NO i cant have all those things because i m playing order and i should play an handicapped clas and not a mara or a sh :D
and just to say wl has punll only if i play solo roaming in any other situation i cant go lion spec because is usless! and also i need a tatcic that speed my lion or my pet cant reach the targhet xD
It's kinda funny that in one very short period aza mirrored the wl to mara with stances and all the utilities, but guess what, wl players hated it and the forum whine was massive. So be careful what you wish for. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Also I find it strange that even with all the great mara tactics, wl still outdamage mara. Such a mystery...
i saw you marauder aoutdamaging every wl on this game in any situation so if u want to tell us those amazing and funny story u can but dont thik that i can trust you xD.
You just spotted yourself as another destro azkaban prisoner thet is escaped from his cage :D

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Jildaz
Posts: 163

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#43 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:22 pm

i loved the Aza Wl Version, it was like getting everything just by switching stance, required more skill but so much more potential.
Gwelthas : WL 86 The Eternal Host
Gwelthaz : IB 86 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers
Gweltaz : SL 83 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers
Ashitakah : SW 82 The Eternal Host

Gwelth : marauder 80
Gwelt : BG 81

adamska2
Posts: 91

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#44 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:29 pm

theoddone wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:04 pm
puzzolamistica wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:52 pm
Jinxypie wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:37 pm

Guess what,WL is a pet class. Play with your pet and you will have the pull as well.
wow u are probably a ''git gud'' smart azkaban prisoner :D
so can i have a 55%+ crit? can i have an aoe kd? can i have a 100%armor pen? can i have a drain ap? can i have an increase cd? can i have an healing debuff? can i have a bounce back whit aoe slow? can i have a frenzy that is not on 13 point spec? can i have a ranged pet? can i have a kd whiout lion?
NO i cant have all those things because i m playing order and i should play an handicapped clas and not a mara or a sh :D
and just to say wl has punll only if i play solo roaming in any other situation i cant go lion spec because is usless! and also i need a tatcic that speed my lion or my pet cant reach the targhet xD
It's kinda funny that in one very short period aza mirrored the wl to mara with stances and all the utilities, but guess what, wl players hated it and the forum whine was massive. So be careful what you wish for. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Also I find it strange that even with all the great mara tactics, wl still outdamage mara. Such a mystery...
My WL dont outdamage my mara, i have more burst on my WL and more constant damage on my mara with rend.

I prefer my mara damage over my wl one currently
Azeyune

sighy
Posts: 259

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#45 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:57 pm

Sundowner wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:07 pm Shammies, SHs and AMs are the best soloers now, because they can get away with it, what's wrong with that? also second part of your statement is strange, RoR is melee-ball dominated game, no one really saw 8 WL/mSH ninjajumping to casters deleting them. What you fear is more coming from adding pounce to WE other than not taking away class uniqueness from WL/SH.

In conclusion, was pounce so problematic outside solo roaming? I don't really think so, in WB you want to stay with MA and tank and assist aoe, in small-scale it merely gives you advantage of reaching target faster, which is off-setted by other mdps classes having other tools. Just straight up nerfing 2 classes when no one even complained about pounce is very strange move to me. Hope this changes will be reverted.
There actually was a WL stacking WB, which outshone the generic BW&friends meele ball. In the first half of the year and they could do a hell of a lot, they had great burst, great aoe, great armor pen and great mobility deleting an organised wb often in seconds of the engagement starting. That was around the time community went from "WL AoE is garbage to ooh **** that's really strong" (granted WLs have had some well deserved nerfs since then)


In regards to the current change it feels like the Devs were trying to be somewhat net neutral seeing the no damage having QoL issues, but trying to not make it as oppressive as it was. (as a sidenote the WE one is kinda thrash, slow and on the anticaster stealth opener only time i would see someone using it is to reach the next out of bounds glitch Bitterstones find)

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Fey
Posts: 769

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#46 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:45 am

The reality is that Pounce should have never been implemented, period. It's always been broken. The range on it should suck, and it should have a heavy cool-down; because of how fundamentally broken an insta-cast gap closer is on a front-loaded mdps.

Robble Robble Run Away. I know, should've always had an icd of at least 5 seconds so that it can't refresh itself. Whazzat is at least as good. 1 meme tactic doesn't justify a class defining wtf mobility ability. Knights used to have 65 ft triple shatter tactic as well to counter the 3rd tier healer on destro. The fact that Shamans broken kite tactics justifies these broken abilities. Ok.

I've played a ton of MMO's over twenty years (obviously not garbage wow) and there's nothing as infuriating as pounce in any of them. Any gap closer comes with a stealth requirement, or a hefty CD, or heavy investment into a niche role.

Broken ability from the start and an endless source of Destro tears and epic pwn trolling. That's awsome and fun of course, but not good for the game I would argue. Pounce should be tied to a tree and skull-bashed with a shovel. Take it away from everyone, then we all can move on and play with each other in harmony. Keep the Run Away ICD of 10 seconds, and delete pounce from the game. Then we can prepare for the chosen/kotbs aura rework that will incinerate scalps.

Or, do 65 foot main pounce for WL/SM/MSH, 30 foot sad pounce for WE/WH CD 10 seconds. This is a good compromise imo. Props for taking a risk dev team.
Fley - Zealot Domoarigobbo - Shaman
Squid - Squig Squit - B.O.
Black Toof Clan

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Winry
Posts: 59

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#47 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:16 am

Fey wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:45 am The reality is that Pounce should have never been implemented, period. It's always been broken. The range on it should suck, and it should have a heavy cool-down; because of how fundamentally broken an insta-cast gap closer is on a front-loaded mdps.

Robble Robble Run Away. I know, should've always had an icd of at least 5 seconds so that it can't refresh itself. Whazzat is at least as good. 1 meme tactic doesn't justify a class defining wtf mobility ability. Knights used to have 65 ft triple shatter tactic as well to counter the 3rd tier healer on destro. The fact that Shamans broken kite tactics justifies these broken abilities. Ok.

I've played a ton of MMO's over twenty years (obviously not garbage wow) and there's nothing as infuriating as pounce in any of them. Any gap closer comes with a stealth requirement, or a hefty CD, or heavy investment into a niche role.

Broken ability from the start and an endless source of Destro tears and epic pwn trolling. That's awsome and fun of course, but not good for the game I would argue. Pounce should be tied to a tree and skull-bashed with a shovel. Take it away from everyone, then we all can move on and play with each other in harmony. Keep the Run Away ICD of 10 seconds, and delete pounce from the game. Then we can prepare for the chosen/kotbs aura rework that will incinerate scalps.

Or, do 65 foot main pounce for WL/SM/MSH, 30 foot sad pounce for WE/WH CD 10 seconds. This is a good compromise imo. Props for taking a risk dev team.
In other words, as you play shaman and SH you don't want a counter to your class.

The reality is that the run away ability from SH and the gobbo tactic should have never been implemented, period. It's always been broken. The insane speed you get while still be able to cast and attack without breaking it is broken.

I've played a ton of MMO's over twenty years (obviously not garbage wow) and there's nothing as infuriating as Run away in any of them. Any speed giving tactic/ability comes with a stealth requirement, or a hefty CD, or heavy investment into a niche role.

Broken ability from the start and an endless source of order tears and epic pwn trolling. That's awsome and fun of course, but not good for the game I would argue. Run away should be tied to a tree and skull-bashed with a shovel. Take it away from everyone, then we all can move on and play with each other in harmony.

havartii
Posts: 423

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#48 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:48 am

They may adjust values but history shows the Devs will double down on their decisions. Refusing to listen to the declining player base. Have your game that no one wants to play. Are they trying to make it more friendly to new users?? There are very few, and they are making long time players quit. Messing with racial traits that define classes is too far. WL and shamans have always had interplay.. one ran the other could catch.. now both get nerfed?? They went from over 1000 views to a couple hundred after releasing patch.. The frustration is pretty clear.
Order: 70 AM / 76 RP/ 72 Knight/ 58 WH
Destro: 82 Sham / 79 Zealot/ 70 DoK /70 Magus /68 Mara
Many alts on both sides now ruined by new currency change

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#49 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:55 am

havartii wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:48 am They may adjust values but history shows the Devs will double down on their decisions. Refusing to listen to the declining player base. Have your game that no one wants to play. Are they trying to make it more friendly to new users?? There are very few, and they are making long time players quit. Messing with racial traits that define classes is too far. WL and shamans have always had interplay.. one ran the other could catch.. now both get nerfed?? They went from over 1000 views to a couple hundred after releasing patch.. The frustration is pretty clear.
This. If Wl's still had their original pounce and fast killing power(but nothing else and still the reason to play WL because so much fun) + 10 second snare to counter goblins none of these dare i say random changes are needed. Game is slowly but surely becoming BLAN. Also removing terrain.. wtf ? Its hard to believe those who make the changes are original warhammer players or even players here... Remove all pounces except WL and sm morale and make it so you can use it to higher or lower ground like it should be. Pets getting grp heals back pls so the class isnt gutted, playing wl as stupid aoe spammer is just not what it should be BLAND AS FVKK
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

havartii
Posts: 423

Re: If a Destro sees a WL 'riding' in their direction...don't worry!

Post#50 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:29 am

They literally took away the only fun things on either of the classes. Kiting shamans was fun, pouncing wl was fun. Sorry we can't have any of that in this game. Just zerg and play in small choke points that have 0 skill.
Order: 70 AM / 76 RP/ 72 Knight/ 58 WH
Destro: 82 Sham / 79 Zealot/ 70 DoK /70 Magus /68 Mara
Many alts on both sides now ruined by new currency change

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