Fort Tracking One Month In

[Senh]

I like the answers that tell you to go reroll order. So if something bothers you is it break or shut up? I have noticed that in video games despotism is exacerbated and is not just a small picture of what happens when you give power to some. If you're not happy, go play animal factory? So this is our enlightened world?
Thank you for your work of collecting, hoping that we can think about a balancing which obviously is the most complicated task. It is much easier and looser to say go reroll order.

[madmalky2014]

Amazes me that buff engis comment is the default for being useless. Wrong tactics are employed by destro you know where the problem is but the majority still push the main door. Straight into a well organised funnel and bomb relentlessly by bw engi and sw.

Solution is simple more at the postern push hard from there and remove the backline and you have a chance. Pushing main will always end in disaster even with morales. I would like forts to be more competitive but buffing classes because the tactics are is not the solution.

[Naelar]

Neither is trying to push more ppl through a smaller door...

[Sponn]

The way I see it is that Order has 1 more viable ranged where as Destro has 1 more viable Melee.

Ranged Aoe/bombers
Ranged for Order: Shadow Warrior, Bright Wizard, Engineer
Ranged for Destro: Magus, Sorc

rSH is more of a single target nuisance.

Melee Aoe/Meleeball
Melee for Order: White Lion, Slayer
Melee for Destro: mSH, Mara, Choppa

mSW is more of a single target nuisance.



I would say to make everyone happy why not just give Order another viable meleeball aoe dps, and give Destro another viable Aoe/bomber. At this point I don't care if it is an explosive throwing axe build from a choppa for the aoe ranged build.


Off the top of my head you could turn Shadow Warrior into a meleeish build if barrage was moved to the assault tree 5 point location (useable in skirm and assault stance) and you just took the cooldown off sweeping strikes.


Then maybe give rSH the SW skirm tree or something? Cause they do want something, that vibe is for sure.

[Neverever]

The way I see it is that Order has 1 more viable ranged where as Destro has 1 more viable Melee.

Ranged Aoe/bombers
Ranged for Order: Shadow Warrior, Bright Wizard, Engineer
Ranged for Destro: Magus, Sorc

rSH is more of a single target nuisance.

Melee Aoe/Meleeball
Melee for Order: White Lion, Slayer
Melee for Destro: mSH, Mara, Choppa

mSW is more of a single target nuisance.



I would say to make everyone happy why not just give Order another viable meleeball aoe dps, and give Destro another viable Aoe/bomber. At this point I don't care if it is an explosive throwing axe build from a choppa for the aoe ranged build.


Off the top of my head you could turn Shadow Warrior into a meleeish build if barrage was moved to the assault tree 5 point location (useable in skirm and assault stance) and you just took the cooldown off sweeping strikes.


Then maybe give rSH the SW skirm tree or something? Cause they do want something, that vibe is for sure.

I think that seems to be the main problem. Having a ranged aoe burst potential which is able to melt whatever tries to break the line of tanks from a safe distance out of enemy aoe zone is much more effectual than having a frontline aoe power based on meleeball that is usually blocked by tank wall. As an addition, Destro lacks effectual strategic tools to break the order frontline consisted of tanks fast enough to reach backlines where the main burst power of the opponent lies. Intriguingly, rampage which is great tool to deal with the frontline defence is only available to Order. I think what Destro needs is a war strategy to get rid of the frontline as fast as possible to be able to reach backlines before being melted. There are two strategies that comes to my mind in that sense, the first is the magus rift but I am not sure about how effectual it is with the recent changes. The second is to use MSH Out o' Ma Way. I have never seen this ability has been tried in keep or fort sieges within a proper plan before. It might be worth to give it a shot to see the outcomes. Apart from that, making a rampagelike ability available for Destro melee can also be considered since I think it is needed more on Destro side under the light of what I have been stated already.

[emiliorv]

Source Data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Well, if you filter the data after the last patch is even worse...overall winrate for order increased to 81% and finally 100% winrate when attacking

Overall Winner
Destruction: 18,75%
Order: 81,25%

Looks like buffing the most played order RDPS was the last nail...

[VindicoAtrum]

Amazes me that buff engis comment is the default for being useless. Wrong tactics are employed by destro you know where the problem is but the majority still push the main door. Straight into a well organised funnel and bomb relentlessly by bw engi and sw.

Solution is simple more at the postern push hard from there and remove the backline and you have a chance. Pushing main will always end in disaster even with morales. I would like forts to be more competitive but buffing classes because the tactics are is not the solution.

"Just push postern", or basically what you meant to say "git gud" is garbage. Posterns are collision shitfests of AoE spamming choppas/slayers with hold the line tanks. Postern doors are insane force multipliers. One wb at postern can hold off multiple warbands because the vision + collision + untargeted aoe + tab targetting clusterfuck is ruinous. They are not a viable primary method to push lord rooms at all, they're supplementary to a main door push.

[Dackle]

The pattern is pretty clear by now, Destro have a legion of small scale heroes which makes them really fast at running supplies and levelling zones to push to Forts, but without proper Warbands you will never get much further, a horde of DPS Shammies isn't going to help much.

but they are so fun to play...

[Dackle]

[/quote]

So what nerfs weren't actually needed in the name of balance? WL was also nerfed after constant Destro complaints, which was correct because that particular Guardian build was OP. Morale bomb nerfs correct as it has massively improved warband v warband fights and varied composition and skill of warbands.
[/quote]

Runefang and shatter confidence tactic (65' and 3 blessing RIP) is a good start, implemented mostly just because of salty tears. The tactic was essential for killing the unkillable Shaman, or Zealot without a warband-and-a-half.

[Tillbeast]

Numbers decides orvr unfortunately and currently order has the numbers and therefore has more organised players and better equipped players. Its a cycle, about half a year ago destruction had the numbers and the server was really bad for order, they would lose most cities and just get zerged badly in orvr. However forts are not about numbers its primarily about how many of the classes that are strong in sieges have made it into the fort. Order classes are better in sieges, always has been its just the way it is. AOE is the king of fort defence and fort offense and order aoe is better than destro aoe. This is why order wins forts, its not a l2p issue its just an advantage order has. Now on an equal server where player base is equal in orvr and cities it is more equal. Order cannot hide there huge quantities of high dps aoe classes behind a tank wall whilst destro have to funnel one or two at a time through a narrow door. Destro can manouver themselves so they can get stuck into the squishy dps classes whilst in open field and there are very few places where players can be funnelled in a city. Ideally order needs about an overall 10-15% dps nerf to its aoe or destro's healers need better aoe healing but I think increasing destro healing would cause more issues than it solves

Destro biggest issue at moment is loss of morale and the numbers deserting them which gives order a huge advantage. It looks like order classes are unbalanced primarily due to the numbers but although I do believe order classes are slightly stronger overall there is not a lot in it. The real difference from now and from when I played more regularly 6/7 months ago is that there are a lot more order tanks and melee dps and they have suddenly discovered the guard ability. I was hoping that would had reduced the number of bw's/engi/dps am order had thinking they had switched to melee but there is still an obscene amount of them so I guess all the ones that left destro for order took the destro mentality of preferring melee over to order side.

Time will fix the issue though. Once the all the xrealmers have got there order characters to the level they want they will switch back to destro and in about 6-7 months time you will have posts from order players complaining of how unbalanced the server is. Warhammer will always struggle with faction balance because of the biggest screw up in game design history was made by the original devs back in the mid 2000's when live was being designed.....you cannot do a game primarily based around rvr with 2 factions....it needs 3...players want to be on the winning side naturally and lose interest if one side gets an advantage, in a 3 faction server once one realm got an advantage the other 2 naturally ganged up on the other preventing them from getting too far ahead. Thats not possible on a 2 faction server. Unfortunately the period of time that one faction has the advantage over the other is getiing longer and longer and this is causing actual overall numbers of players to drop.

Love this game and its painful watching it in its current state