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RSH Underperforming

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sgtnanners
Posts: 27

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#31 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:26 am

yeah rsh actually op, pls nerf them.
84 Sorc
75 Squig Herder
60 Shaman

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Cptkud
Posts: 15

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#32 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 am

CeeJay89 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:33 am
Cptkud wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:05 am
Spoiler:
adapter wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:13 pm
Just need to buff damage output on Big Shootin spec, that's it.
I disagree. I run Big Shootin and I have crit for 3100. My average crit is about 1500 with plink and I land them somewhat often. I feel like the issue is either more survivability like more armor, wounds, toughness or some of our utilities need to be tweaked. Like a longer knock down from our horned squig, SW get a 3 sec. Maybe Tastes Like Chicken can also remove a curse, hex or ailment. I wish they would get rid of the launch upward form Kaboom! I'd sure like Instill Fear! Or something that staggers for 6 sec. Give us a little more of a fighting chance.


I don't understand. Are Squig Herders really concerned about not having a fighting chance? You have a literal tool for everything, and your damage is anything but weak.

RUN AWAY!, Run Away!, KABOOM!, Drop That!, Horn Squig knockdown, Sticky Squiqz, stackable detaunts...all but one being a baseline ability.

I'm not even going to get started on mSH. There's no other class that has the utility and tools a SH has. I can't fathom how you can possibly expect more.
Well, rSHs are an easy kill so they are targeted first. Most classes can burst kill you in 3 sec so you aren't much use to the WB. Healers don't heal you, cause you melt so fast, and tanks don't guard you cause you have to kite to survive. And if a WB doesn't kick you for a better option, you get dumped in either your own party or a party with lowbies, WEs, and no healers. So how is that fun? You might as well be solo which if there's a WH or WL around, you're dead.

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franzjaeger
Posts: 41

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#33 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:55 am

Cptkud wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 am
Well, rSHs are an easy kill so they are targeted first. Most classes can burst kill you in 3 sec so you aren't much use to the WB. Healers don't heal you, cause you melt so fast, and tanks don't guard you cause you have to kite to survive. And if a WB doesn't kick you for a better option, you get dumped in either your own party or a party with lowbies, WEs, and no healers. So how is that fun? You might as well be solo which if there's a WH or WL around, you're dead.

Some of this is true in my experience. I usually have no issues with healers not healing me, I haven't really met any healers who have class bias even in organized wbs. I get guard sometimes, but usually only if wb leader explicitly instructs tanks to guard rdps for example when oil is up. Order rdps seems to be always guarded on keep walls though, why does destro tanks so rarely do this? There's always a good share of tanks just afk in keep when they could be guarding rdps.

I have been kicked once from a wb to be replaced by a healer when we were low on healers. It happens and I get it, I'm no mad about that specific situation. At least that means the wb leader cares about managing the wb, it's even worse when half the wb is afk or in other zones and groups are messed up. A couple of times I've been placed in the dump parties with lowbies and no healers, sometimes it had made some sense, other times the wb leader is just clueless to what the classes actually bring to the table and just want to make sure they and their friends get the best group composition. If that happens I try to find a new wb.

It can be hard to be an rdps with little to no AoE and barely any ST burst to talk about compared to other classes, because utility is so undervalued by the general community. The classes who get a bad reputation have a hard time redeeming themselves, all some people see are raw DPS numbers and draw their conclusions from that.


CeeJay89 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:33 am
I don't understand. Are Squig Herders really concerned about not having a fighting chance? You have a literal tool for everything, and your damage is anything but weak.

RUN AWAY!, Run Away!, KABOOM!, Drop That!, Horn Squig knockdown, Sticky Squiqz, stackable detaunts...all but one being a baseline ability.

I'm not even going to get started on mSH. There's no other class that has the utility and tools a SH has. I can't fathom how you can possibly expect more.

You've already gotten started on mSH, three of the abilities you listed are in the mSH tree, one even requires squig armor and one is tied to a squig that only mSH uses (if that, most run Territorial Aggression and many rSH run All By Meself). In general, tools tied to squigs are unreliable at best and usually only relevant in small scale encounters. In ORvR your pet of choice is dead 90% of the time and with a 2s summon that is interrupted on movement, a 30s cooldown and high AP cost there is no practical juggling of squigs, fitting them in a rotation or reaction-based usage the way for example SW can switch stances.

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Jabba
Posts: 309

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#34 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 am

Still don't understand why people are talking about rSH not being wanted in warbands as a reason for changing them. If you want to play in warbands on a sh, you don't play rSH.

If you want to play in warbands on zeal/shaman/dok/rp/wp/am....you don't play dps, you play heal.

If you want to play warbands on a tank, you don't play as a loldps spec, you play as snb or select 2h utility specs.

If you want to play in a warband on choppa/slayer, you don't play 2h spec, you play dual wield with the appropriate spec.

If you want to play as an engi/magus, you don't play as a single target/toughness roam spec. You spec appropiately.

WL you don't play with pet spec. You play loner.

Mara, you don't play a savagery/brutality build. You spec Monstro.

etc etc


All classes have specs that are not viable for warbands, if you want to play in proper warbands on these classes, maybe you don't get to play your preferred spec. For SH, this means you play mSH, rather than range.
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franzjaeger
Posts: 41

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#35 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:50 am

Jabba wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 am
Still don't understand why people are talking about rSH not being wanted in warbands as a reason for changing them. If you want to play in warbands on a sh, you don't play rSH.

If you want to play in warbands on zeal/shaman/dok/rp/wp/am....you don't play dps, you play heal.

If you want to play warbands on a tank, you don't play as a loldps spec, you play as snb or select 2h utility specs.

If you want to play in a warband on choppa/slayer, you don't play 2h spec, you play dual wield with the appropriate spec.

If you want to play as an engi/magus, you don't play as a single target/toughness roam spec. You spec appropiately.

WL you don't play with pet spec. You play loner.

Mara, you don't play a savagery/brutality build. You spec Monstro.

etc etc


All classes have specs that are not viable for warbands, if you want to play in proper warbands on these classes, maybe you don't get to play your preferred spec. For SH, this means you play mSH, rather than range.
Except mSH is the "off spec" for SH, rSH is the main spec and no matter how you spec your rSH (dps, utility, aoe (lol)) you're not really wanted. That is not the same as playing a dps-specced healer or tank or solo-specced engi/magus/WL/mara. SH is a range class first and foremost, if I wanted to play a melee class I would play mara or choppa. Re-speccing to mSH from rSH is not the same as switching around some points and tactics to get more AoE/utility, you completely change everything about how the class plays to the point where you might as well just have switched to a different char. It's just not the same thing.

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sgtnanners
Posts: 27

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#36 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:57 am

Tell me what rSH excels at. Ini and block debuffing people? What situation are rSHs better at other classes in because they arent the best solo roamers, they arent good in wbs, and they arent good in cities. Rsh have 2 builds. The turret style poison arrer build which you might as well be a magus or the kiting quick shooting build with healing debuff which you might as well be a dps sham. rSH are balanced because they are good at duo roaming with pocket healer? Because even then I can think of better 2 man combos. rSH are good at 6 man roaming then why dont they bring them to 6v6 tournies. What are rSH good at? What are rSH best at? They are support class?
84 Sorc
75 Squig Herder
60 Shaman

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Ugle
Posts: 547

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#37 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 am

sgtnanners wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:57 am
Tell me what rSH excels at. Ini and block debuffing people? What situation are rSHs better at other classes in because they arent the best solo roamers, they arent good in wbs, and they arent good in cities. Rsh have 2 builds. The turret style poison arrer build which you might as well be a magus or the kiting quick shooting build with healing debuff which you might as well be a dps sham. rSH are balanced because they are good at duo roaming with pocket healer? Because even then I can think of better 2 man combos. rSH are good at 6 man roaming then why dont they bring them to 6v6 tournies. What are rSH good at? What are rSH best at? They are support class?
rSH have, by far, the best toolkit of any dps class for orvr smallscale roaming, both for countering other classes strengths as well as escape tools for any situation. As you have a SH in your signature I guess listing them up is not needed. What you don't have in the QS spec is pure burst, which means you should play accordingly, as well as assess the encounters and choose your battles wisely. (like any other class)
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO | Uglegutt - SQH

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sgtnanners
Posts: 27

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#38 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:14 am

Hard disagree. Dps shamans do 95% of what rSH do and have heals and res. Not to say rSH isnt a good smallscale roaming class but I dont think they are even the best or 2nd best at this niche area of gameplay.
84 Sorc
75 Squig Herder
60 Shaman

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Ugle
Posts: 547

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#39 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:32 am

Perspectives..

If you play a pure DPS spec shammie I disagree with you, if you compare yourself with a sustain spec hybrid shammie thats a different ballpark, of which they are undoubtly the best spec for soloroaming along with AM, which in either perspective puts you at a first place or second place in the game, hardly underperforming I would say.

Your opportunity to control the fight you want to engage, control which fights you dont want to engage, and the toolkit to get out of unwanted situations is the strength of the rSH.

Edit: What rSH desperatly needs is some QOL changes to pet buggyness, which is reason enough not to play rSH in the current state in my book.
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO | Uglegutt - SQH

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Jabba
Posts: 309

Re: RSH Underperforming

Post#40 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59 am

franzjaeger wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:50 am
Jabba wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 am
Still don't understand why people are talking about rSH not being wanted in warbands as a reason for changing them. If you want to play in warbands on a sh, you don't play rSH.

If you want to play in warbands on zeal/shaman/dok/rp/wp/am....you don't play dps, you play heal.

If you want to play warbands on a tank, you don't play as a loldps spec, you play as snb or select 2h utility specs.

If you want to play in a warband on choppa/slayer, you don't play 2h spec, you play dual wield with the appropriate spec.

If you want to play as an engi/magus, you don't play as a single target/toughness roam spec. You spec appropiately.

WL you don't play with pet spec. You play loner.

Mara, you don't play a savagery/brutality build. You spec Monstro.

etc etc


All classes have specs that are not viable for warbands, if you want to play in proper warbands on these classes, maybe you don't get to play your preferred spec. For SH, this means you play mSH, rather than range.
Except mSH is the "off spec" for SH, rSH is the main spec and no matter how you spec your rSH (dps, utility, aoe (lol)) you're not really wanted. That is not the same as playing a dps-specced healer or tank or solo-specced engi/magus/WL/mara. SH is a range class first and foremost, if I wanted to play a melee class I would play mara or choppa. Re-speccing to mSH from rSH is not the same as switching around some points and tactics to get more AoE/utility, you completely change everything about how the class plays to the point where you might as well just have switched to a different char. It's just not the same thing.
Loner isn't the main spec for wl.
SnB isnt main spec for sm/BG who were clearly designed as 2h tanks.
Arguably, pure heal isnt main spec for am/shaman whose mechanic is meant to promote hybrid lifetaps.
Is monstro mara it's main spec?
What's your point?
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