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Call to the development team

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sogeou
Posts: 323

Re: Call to the development team

Post#21 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:46 pm

Toshutkidup wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:35 am
VindicoAtrum wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:02 pm
despite the fact that no-one ever complains about MSH burst.
Guess you haven’t watched my streams lol.
Destro is more vocal on the forums than order.

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TenaciousBuf
Posts: 23

Re: Call to the development team

Post#22 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:00 pm

Dwarni wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:00 am
Wushi wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:32 pm
If you really want to look at faction balance, look at the whole faction. Why is order overperforming in forts for example? Well, the ranged classes are attractive and fun, people love playing Bright Wizards and Engineers...etc etc...
And how should developers fix this, or should they even try to fix this?

I mean if class XYZ is underperforming compared to the mirror class, ok it is the developer's job to fix this. But a faction does underperform as a whole just because the players of that faction want to mostly play only 2h tanks and melee DPS can't and shouldn't be fixed by developers, since it is a problem of player's choice.

There are just too many melee DPS and 2h Tanks. And even worse if you ask something for advice you get answers like this: "Don't play SnB Tanks they are useless, they don't do any damage". "Magus is the worst destro class".

So on the one hand destro complains that they lose because order has too many specific range classes and on the other hand they demotivate new players from playing one of the aoe heavy range classes or Sword and Shield tank, which can counter AOE range quite good.
you made a good point however from a healer perspective from what ever changes were made in the last few months it is not easy to keep even a good geared destro shield tank up during a good funnel or in forts holding the line. AOE is just too heavy. So I cant really blame them wanting to play different style. As far magus goes, I only really hear from players that played magus wanting to play something else because they just die to quick to do any damage/difference. I am not saying it as a fact, just from what people we saying playing the class. I think it might be due to some AOE range differences and perhaps the amount of range availability class wise that is beneficial to play. I do agree destro could use some more players playing range aoe classes. Reworking range squids might be helpful too bringing it a little closer to the ranged SW level. That might encourage disappointed squids to try out range spec or come back playing.

JarlBerzirk
Posts: 100

Re: Call to the development team

Post#23 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:18 am

sogeou wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:46 pm
Toshutkidup wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:35 am
VindicoAtrum wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:02 pm
despite the fact that no-one ever complains about MSH burst.
Guess you haven’t watched my streams lol.
Destro is more vocal on the forums than order.
Both sides are equally vocal. Saying one side is moreso is simply incorrect.

Rekoom
Posts: 109

Re: Call to the development team

Post#24 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:32 am

My anecdotal evidence playing both sides in fort is Order can make do with 1 healer per group and never really be pressured while Destro is dying outside the main door.
Rekoom - 80+ BO

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dalen
Developer
Posts: 338

Re: Call to the development team

Post#25 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:45 am

Wushi wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:32 pm
The recent changes (~nerfs) to different solo specs/classes seem more and more as if the dev team is trying to force people to play certain roles, instead of allowing for diversity and fluidity in builds. I'm a bit worried an unintended side-effect of these changes is taking the fun and longevity out of the game.

I understand you guys want to focus on group play, but a group consists of different players, who more often than not also want to be able to be useful outside of this group play. There is also a solid base of solo/duo/roaming players that love tweaking builds, trying out different specs. Why invest hours and hours in a class that you love because of its roaming abilities, when it can get nerfed at any time and forced into a certain playstyle? I'm afraid it's not guiding players into certain roles, it's pushing them away to different games.

Frankly, and I'm saying this out of a love for the game, I feel like you guys have been taking the 'easy route' a bit lately by just taking away certain specs/tactics that make classes able to participate in smaller settings, and more often than not are the things making the classes fun. Why instead not look at the aspects that make certain classes less attractive and fix those, maybe incorporate some fun elements in those, instead of taking away the fun aspects from classes people are playing succesfully?

Another (smaller) aspect is, in my opinion, the obsessive focus with faction balance. For example in this last patch, taking away the damage on squig leap feels a little weak. Just because Pounce was overperforming for White Lions' single target damage, doesn't mean squigs were overperforming in this department. Yet they get hit with the ban hammer just the same, because 'Faction balance'.

If you really want to look at faction balance, look at the whole faction. Why is order overperforming in forts for example? Well the ranged classes are attractive and fun, people love playing Bright Wizards and Engineers...etc etc...

All in all, this is a call not to lose focus on what brings people to play the game, and what makes warhammer a fun MMO. I understand it's important to have a certain aspect of the game (Warband play) as a focal point, but please don't blatantly nerf and ignore the many other aspects. I feel like it will inevitably drive people away to more diverse games.
Nerfing some tactics or abilities that are completely overpowered in solo play is not about forcing everyone to play in a group or removing the option to play solo.

By making the game both more balanced in 1v1 as well as in group play, It is actually making it possible to play solo on more classes.

If making it more balanced is taking away the fun for you, sorry about that.
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adamska2
Legacy RR80
Posts: 75

Re: Call to the development team

Post#26 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:28 am

+1 Dalen
Azeyune

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Gurf
Posts: 331

Re: Call to the development team

Post#27 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:37 am

Agree with Dalen

It is important to balance things relatively on 1 v 1 , which is why the Devs will have to eventually look at the ridiculous survivability of the Shaman who is the roaming monster at the moment, which won't be a popular thing to do I'm sure.

Sundowner
Posts: 127

Re: Call to the development team

Post#28 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:57 am

Gurf wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:37 am
Agree with Dalen

It is important to balance things relatively on 1 v 1 , which is why the Devs will have to eventually look at the ridiculous survivability of the Shaman who is the roaming monster at the moment, which won't be a popular thing to do I'm sure.
Yeah, people should realize that nerfing overperforming classes opens way for other classes to go for example solo playstyle and be more competitive, which brings more diversity and fun.

and yes, solo shammies are way too strong in solo

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Wushi
Posts: 7

Re: Call to the development team

Post#29 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:45 am

dalen wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:45 am
Wushi wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:32 pm
The recent changes (~nerfs) to different solo specs/classes seem more and more as if the dev team is trying to force people to play certain roles, instead of allowing for diversity and fluidity in builds. I'm a bit worried an unintended side-effect of these changes is taking the fun and longevity out of the game.

I understand you guys want to focus on group play, but a group consists of different players, who more often than not also want to be able to be useful outside of this group play. There is also a solid base of solo/duo/roaming players that love tweaking builds, trying out different specs. Why invest hours and hours in a class that you love because of its roaming abilities, when it can get nerfed at any time and forced into a certain playstyle? I'm afraid it's not guiding players into certain roles, it's pushing them away to different games.

Frankly, and I'm saying this out of a love for the game, I feel like you guys have been taking the 'easy route' a bit lately by just taking away certain specs/tactics that make classes able to participate in smaller settings, and more often than not are the things making the classes fun. Why instead not look at the aspects that make certain classes less attractive and fix those, maybe incorporate some fun elements in those, instead of taking away the fun aspects from classes people are playing succesfully?

Another (smaller) aspect is, in my opinion, the obsessive focus with faction balance. For example in this last patch, taking away the damage on squig leap feels a little weak. Just because Pounce was overperforming for White Lions' single target damage, doesn't mean squigs were overperforming in this department. Yet they get hit with the ban hammer just the same, because 'Faction balance'.

If you really want to look at faction balance, look at the whole faction. Why is order overperforming in forts for example? Well the ranged classes are attractive and fun, people love playing Bright Wizards and Engineers...etc etc...

All in all, this is a call not to lose focus on what brings people to play the game, and what makes warhammer a fun MMO. I understand it's important to have a certain aspect of the game (Warband play) as a focal point, but please don't blatantly nerf and ignore the many other aspects. I feel like it will inevitably drive people away to more diverse games.
Nerfing some tactics or abilities that are completely overpowered in solo play is not about forcing everyone to play in a group or removing the option to play solo.

By making the game both more balanced in 1v1 as well as in group play, It is actually making it possible to play solo on more classes.

If making it more balanced is taking away the fun for you, sorry about that.
I definitely understand where you are coming from, and let me please say that I'm really grateful with RoR, and everything the team has done, and still does very actively. Also it is not out of a concern for myself, but moreso for the overall state of the game.

I just don't think removing things every time something seems to perform well is the way to go in the longterm, you'll just end up with a shade of grey of different classes instead of a colorful spectrum that could have been, to use a color analogy.

I'm also not seeing it having the intended effect of people moving to play more 'underperforming' classes. Rather it will just deter people from investing the time and grind, knowing that any class could get nerfed as soon as it's seen as 'strong' in a certain area.

Why not instead look at the reasons why some classes are played less than others, or seem to perform less well, and focus on bringing balance to those?

And again, I'm really grateful for the time you guys put into the develoment and keeping the game alive and thriving for this long, it's just a concern that I think could be valuable to keep in mind.

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KissShot
Posts: 97
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Re: Call to the development team

Post#30 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm

adamska2 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:28 am
+1 Dalen

+2, ez

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