Recent Topics

Ads

Fort Tracker One Week In

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Rekoom
Posts: 109

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#31 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:47 am

azzawite88 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:26 am
All i see is whine and QQ here, blaming everything but the fact that you are about as useful as a chocolate teapot without your zergs, learn to play and get good.
Nice bait.

Forts are situations where healers are under a lot of constant pressure. Could the winrate difference have anything to do with the fact Order gets more +% heal bonii (WP & KotBS)?
Rekoom - 80+ BO

Ads
User avatar
Sybreal
Posts: 24

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#32 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:53 pm

When we fight organized destro warbands we have a rough time when numbers are even. I can tell you first hand we get wiped hard when we face organized resistance.

When we get blobbed by destro we can still do something since we're usually always organized as well.

When the reverse is true and order is blobbing destro, I haven't seen them do anything meaningful. I can only assume there aren't that many organized warbands that are communicating. I've seen much larger numbers of destro run from our smaller warband. I'm guessing its because they're just a pug blob and don't have a coordinated leader to tell them to turn and fight. Morale (not the skills) is also a big part of fighting.

I don't know why half of destro is complaining that Order is blobbing when not two weeks ago it was 225 order v 495 destro in Praag. Numbers mean less in forts. Order seems to be better organized, which is why the numbers for forts heavily favor Order.

Edit: To further argue against organized destro, we just flanked the destro funneling the outer walls in the Caledor keep through a completely unguarded postern. If there had been communication the funnel would have at least been warned and could retreat to the keep.

Edit2: Also, the past few forts destro have had max defenders at stage 1 then drop to like 100-110, so the Order offensive fort numbers are going to be artificially skewed.
Last edited by Sybreal on Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Squizzel26
Posts: 11

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#33 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:18 pm

Amorphium wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:48 am
Acidic wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:53 am
Last 12 forts not a single Destro fort win, even the order trolls should be seeing a problem
there is something wrong for sure but what? The class balance is imho not nearly bad enough to account for the disparity in win rates, I also don't think destro is worse at the game than order
It has nothing to do with the fact that 7 of the last 10 were not even properly defended? Also I love that the AKF fort of 66 v 4 during city is included. How exactly is that supposed to help identify a realm power imbalance? If you want to highlight an imbalance then you need to compare like data, you would not accept for example that all was ok if Order no-showed the next 12 forts to get the win % down. You guys are competitive in Scenarios and open RVR (Zergs on both sides aside) and still Dominant in Cities so the difference between the two realms can't be that bad.


Honestly right now it feels like Destro have just given up and would rather take their underdefended "L" because it further reinforces the narrative that they are somehow being cheated. I understand that no one likes to lose but Dev's are clearly monitoring the fort situation as they have adjusted numbers twice already recently. They have also stated in recent patch notes post that balance team is probably going to be looking at RSH soon with Choppa 2H and 1H AOE to follow.


Maybe in the meantime people should stop crying on the forum and look at what they can do to help themselves.

User avatar
empmoz
Posts: 93

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#34 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:21 pm

Destro can't even fill a fort with enough defenders, and those that do defend are often not even level 40. Last night I defended a fort with 100 destro, and 160 order attacking with 60+ waiting in the queue. It's an issue of motivation/less population of Destro's side, AFAIK, but I don't think there is a fix for that other than to wait until order players get bored and switch sides.

Edit - For the past month or so, I log on, see severe population imbalance (300 order vs 100/150 destro) and quit the game to play something else. I've been steamrolled enough times to know when to quit, and this game is just not fun with such a large player disadvantage.

User avatar
normanis
Posts: 619
Contact:

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#35 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:35 pm

its can be also like main is fully geared, i level alt and need gear. i think there shouldnt be changes at all for month. and in november when alt levelers will be in decent gear than maby destro win more. byts its my opinion
p.s i will not write about zerg, i will tell this . order is favoured with rdps and they get decent buffs. while wl got nerfs in row. and wh is lower damage than wych. why i am telling this. well destro didnt have problems push forts when there was dousen wh and wl in fort defense. ppl seen wych has bigger potential and they start play that class. for example wych has hard time to enter trough main gate or passdor because constant bw/engi/sw fire. and wyches melting. maby somewhere i misunderstand things, and i only talk about from my expierence.

User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1805
Contact:

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#36 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:51 pm

Could also be that Destro are bored of being farmed in forts

ChicagoJoe
Posts: 165

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#37 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:05 pm

Naelar wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 am
Gurf wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:57 am
Acidic wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:08 am


Maybe could be related to the recent changes ?
Previously there have been numerous posts on Destro vs order win conditions, all the win conditions that were listed for Destro have been nerfed. Order ones stayed as they were. Strange the fort win lose ratio has changed from reasonable to Destro failing, there is a clear correlation . But order just fixate on own benefit and ignore state of game.
Surely the changes to Forts in last patches made it easier to take forts not harder? ie less damage from poison and fewer population (ie less aoe pressure)
My experience with forts going back to when it was 240 v 192 was that lower numbers tend to favor the attacker, for the reasons you stated.
I agree that in theory lower numbers would favor the attackers but I think it’s the opposite based on other factors and the results are probably similar with recent fortress population reductions, not
better.

One major reason for this is that the recent composition priority and rr changes for invites and queuing for the initial fort defense help assure that it will be packed with more balanced higher rr defenders. It is easier for a small organized group to make a difference.

With an organized balanced defense, lower defenders with same ratio will benefit defense until you get too small of totals overall to block the entrances.

The AOE pressure you are referring to is significant yet is still limited by stacking rules. There is a lot of wasted napalm and mist as that doesn’t stack, and keeps the engi/magus from pulling with magnet/rifts.

Also a lot of the stackable DOTs can be cleansed however from what I’ve seen and heard destro composition of healers may currently favor a city meta or dps solo/ganking and may not include as many taking group cleanse tactics.

Same with the ton of 2H tanks. Good for some in destro city meta but really bad for fortress pushes.

I still think a career masteries change option in fortress attackers camp would benefit attackers more than defenders or any of the other changes or fortress population reductions.

Rapzel
Posts: 115

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#38 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:51 pm

ChicagoJoe wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:05 pm
Naelar wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 am
Gurf wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:57 am


Surely the changes to Forts in last patches made it easier to take forts not harder? ie less damage from poison and fewer population (ie less aoe pressure)
My experience with forts going back to when it was 240 v 192 was that lower numbers tend to favor the attacker, for the reasons you stated.
I agree that in theory lower numbers would favor the attackers but I think it’s the opposite based on other factors and the results are probably similar with recent fortress population reductions, not
better.

One major reason for this is that the recent composition priority and rr changes for invites and queuing for the initial fort defense help assure that it will be packed with more balanced higher rr defenders. It is easier for a small organized group to make a difference.

With an organized balanced defense, lower defenders with same ratio will benefit defense until you get too small of totals overall to block the entrances.

The AOE pressure you are referring to is significant yet is still limited by stacking rules.

Also a lot of the stackable DOTs can be cleansed however from what I’ve seen and heard destro composition of healers may currently favor a city meta or dps solo/ganking and may not include as many taking group cleanse tactics.

Same with the ton of 2H tanks. Good for some in destro city meta but really bad for fortress pushes.

I still think a career change option in fortress attackers camp would benefit attackers more than defenders or any of the other changes or fortress population reductions.
In theory? Order has over 91% winrate, and you think less players in fort in theory is a boon to the attacker?

When destro double push which apparently is skewering the stats to Order favor somehow (Order prider logic) there's usually 3-5 premade destro wbs out and about, running decent destro meta setups, I haven't seen them run any 2h tanks.
City meta in ORvR? People usually relog and/or respec before city.
Destro is currently losing city as their melee got quite heavy nerfs, while Order still sits on the best tank, melee dps, ranged dps, and arguably best healer, for WBs (weird how the same careers are among the best in small scale as well, weird how "balance" sometimes work out).
Destro's strong careers atm are roamers/solo careers (WE/Shaman/rSH) when you're in a ORvR lake.
Destro are bashing their heads against a wall, and have been for a long time when it comes to ORvR.
Then nerfing destro to make cities more "fair" (we had IC on a farm schedule, the "x-realmers"/city loggers, kept pushing campaign on Order for several months and still apparently are, I wonder why.) was the last nail in the coffin, so it's better to just wait for the reworks of careers and let the Order Zerg continue.

Is the whole game Order biased? No, because Order has some garbage careers (and in particular awful speccs) as well, but when they have at least 3/4 of the 4 arch types (healer is arguable whether RP or Zeal is the better one in 6vs6) in every aspect of PvP in the game there's an imbalance.

So I guess the next nerf is going to be targeted at PUG SC setups where Order can face roll their way to victory.

//Proud x-realmer that played Order for 3 years straight.

Ads
User avatar
Gurf
Posts: 331

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#39 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:26 pm

Rapzel wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:51 pm
ChicagoJoe wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:05 pm
Naelar wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 am

My experience with forts going back to when it was 240 v 192 was that lower numbers tend to favor the attacker, for the reasons you stated.
I agree that in theory lower numbers would favor the attackers but I think it’s the opposite based on other factors and the results are probably similar with recent fortress population reductions, not
better.

One major reason for this is that the recent composition priority and rr changes for invites and queuing for the initial fort defense help assure that it will be packed with more balanced higher rr defenders. It is easier for a small organized group to make a difference.

With an organized balanced defense, lower defenders with same ratio will benefit defense until you get too small of totals overall to block the entrances.

The AOE pressure you are referring to is significant yet is still limited by stacking rules.

Also a lot of the stackable DOTs can be cleansed however from what I’ve seen and heard destro composition of healers may currently favor a city meta or dps solo/ganking and may not include as many taking group cleanse tactics.

Same with the ton of 2H tanks. Good for some in destro city meta but really bad for fortress pushes.

I still think a career change option in fortress attackers camp would benefit attackers more than defenders or any of the other changes or fortress population reductions.
In theory? Order has over 91% winrate, and you think less players in fort in theory is a boon to the attacker?

When destro double push which apparently is skewering the stats to Order favor somehow (Order prider logic) there's usually 3-5 premade destro wbs out and about, running decent destro meta setups, I haven't seen them run any 2h tanks.
City meta in ORvR? People usually relog and/or respec before city.
Destro is currently losing city as their melee got quite heavy nerfs, while Order still sits on the best tank, melee dps, ranged dps, and arguably best healer, for WBs (weird how the same careers are among the best in small scale as well, weird how "balance" sometimes work out).
Destro's strong careers atm are roamers/solo careers (WE/Shaman/rSH) when you're in a ORvR lake.
Destro are bashing their heads against a wall, and have been for a long time when it comes to ORvR.
Then nerfing destro to make cities more "fair" (we had IC on a farm schedule, the "x-realmers"/city loggers, kept pushing campaign on Order for several months and still apparently are, I wonder why.) was the last nail in the coffin, so it's better to just wait for the reworks of careers and let the Order Zerg continue.

Is the whole game Order biased? No, because Order has some garbage careers (and in particular awful speccs) as well, but when they have at least 3/4 of the 4 arch types (healer is arguable whether RP or Zeal is the better one in 6vs6) in every aspect of PvP in the game there's an imbalance.

So I guess the next nerf is going to be targeted at PUG SC setups where Order can face roll their way to victory.

//Proud x-realmer that played Order for 3 years straight.
Except overall Destro has won more cities than lost over the last few weeks, most City out of EU Prime time Destro usually are back up to 70% win rate, last few in Prime it has Order winning by 1 or 2 instances.

When it comes to ORVR it isn't that complicated, fix up 2-2-2 groups with aoe dps and go and farm the pug warbands and hopefully fight some similar sized warbands on even terms, any decent Destro leader can organise that if they want to, it isn't going to be hindered by any class or realm imbalance seeing as its still easier for Destro to fill up a warband with melee dps and morale drops are still an effective tool against large numbers. Saw PnP out in the lakes yesterday on Destro and they seemed to have no problem killing many more than their numbers.

emiliorv
Posts: 684

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#40 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:30 pm

empmoz wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:21 pm
Edit - For the past month or so, I log on, see severe population imbalance (300 order vs 100/150 destro) and quit the game to play something else. I've been steamrolled enough times to know when to quit, and this game is just not fun with such a large player disadvantage.
I got bored to see how destro got nerfed in all this year to "balance" a pug VS premade issue...finally stopped to log in.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Asharona, GimmiMoar, Google Adsense [Bot], Lithenir and 25 guests