Any ETA on the SH re-work

[zij83]

rSH should get the say nerfs the ranged SW got. Then see how much they will enjoy it. Remove shooting with the wind and put some of the same changes SW got. Most SW would like all those changes rolled back. They were good at first, but nerfed their kiting tree and now the damage has been lowered a lot along with trees in a strange place.

TLDR: Be careful of what you wish for.

SWs are OP as hell right now, what are you smoking!

[Adelmar]

rSH should get the say nerfs the ranged SW got. Then see how much they will enjoy it. Remove shooting with the wind and put some of the same changes SW got. Most SW would like all those changes rolled back. They were good at first, but nerfed their kiting tree and now the damage has been lowered a lot along with trees in a strange place.

TLDR: Be careful of what you wish for.

SWs are OP as hell right now, what are you smoking!

If you truly believe that, then I don't know what to say. There's a reason why many experienced SWs wanted slight number tweaks and a couple QoL changes instead of what we got. If SW was "OP as hell", as you say, then why do those same SWs prefer the old Skirmish spec from before?

[Mordd]

Might that be because ranged SH already suffers from DMG side while WL doesn't at all ? What you state shamelessly as QoL is just a joke to any good and experienced SH player who knows what those tactics provide for a tactic slot. And what tactic WLs actually have to use for their Lion ? Speed tactic is not a must since the running speed of the lion was increased in RoR. People equip it to be able to catch mounted people these days. Lol what is funny is that they actually needed to change pet damage mechanic in order to prevent WL pets killing players inside keep walls as they move further than their masters. So on the one side we are talking about a pet with a dmg potential like that (amlost another player) and on the other hand we have SH pets. So please no more joking dude.

WL pet is normal run speed and due to bad pet pathing wont keep up quite often just running normally let alone if you pounce. With out speed training you can just out run a pet endlessly, mean while several of our best attacks are off of the pet. The classes work substantially different. My original post is you cant make this comparison. All of the tactics and abilities and what the pets do are significantly different. You are trying to compare a RDPS to a MDPS the way you are using it. You are trying to compare ranged pets to a melee only pet. You are trying to compare immediately summoning a different pet to having to be without one for a bit. They are different. Stop trying to compare them, apples and oranges.

[Neverever]

Might that be because ranged SH already suffers from DMG side while WL doesn't at all ? What you state shamelessly as QoL is just a joke to any good and experienced SH player who knows what those tactics provide for a tactic slot. And what tactic WLs actually have to use for their Lion ? Speed tactic is not a must since the running speed of the lion was increased in RoR. People equip it to be able to catch mounted people these days. Lol what is funny is that they actually needed to change pet damage mechanic in order to prevent WL pets killing players inside keep walls as they move further than their masters. So on the one side we are talking about a pet with a dmg potential like that (amlost another player) and on the other hand we have SH pets. So please no more joking dude.

WL pet is normal run speed and due to bad pet pathing wont keep up quite often just running normally let alone if you pounce. With out speed training you can just out run a pet endlessly, mean while several of our best attacks are off of the pet. The classes work substantially different. My original post is you cant make this comparison. All of the tactics and abilities and what the pets do are significantly different. You are trying to compare a RDPS to a MDPS the way you are using it. You are trying to compare ranged pets to a melee only pet. You are trying to compare immediately summoning a different pet to having to be without one for a bit. They are different. Stop trying to compare them, apples and oranges.

I have explained why pet granted buffs can fairy be compared. I have played ranked scs and matched with almost all of the good WLs, believe or not but SH pet dies much faster than the lion pet both in large scale and and 6vs6. So your argument that one is melee and melee pet dies faster is not valid just as your argument about being able to immidiately summon another pet is not. All those pets grant different buffs and perform different abilities planned for different specs. SH has 2 remove pet (so actually you need to kill one to summon the other) and instantly summon a different type of squig yet it has only 2 ranged ones (only one is in fact useful though) with 30 scs. CD and 2 second cast time, which equals having one pet with 15sc CD and summon on the move. They might be apples and oranges from your eyes but they are the only two classes in game that can actually be compared to each other due to same pet mechanics. I have played all of these 4 classes and can fairly say SH-MARA-SW-WL are complementary as a quatrain to each other in terms of different mechanics. SW is similar to Mara in terms of stance mechanic while SH is counterpart of WL in terms of pet mechanic. They are not only comparable but almost also mirrors in that sense. Lastly, most of the good WLs I played against don't equip speed training except when they solo around...

[Ravai]

Dusted my squig off the otherday and respecced it from melee to ranged been playing it on and off since as I was curious if it was as bad as people were saying. Ranged squig seems fine honestly, combined with the utility, damage and mobility the class is still incredibly strong small scale and for general group play. Aoe wise it doesnt compete with its melee build but why should it? You risk making an already strong spec unrivaled.

Short clip from the stream today albeit against unorganised order it gives an example of their potency both damage and survivability, It didn't feel like a class that needs a rework or buff unless you look at maybe making the other pets more viable instead of just the spiked squig or an attack range increase to buff their survivability in larger fights as the pet is very squishy (maybe tied to a CD ability). Leakypants made a few good suggestions in a thread the otherday but buffing the damage in anyway other than a maybe CD like squig frenzy (which order can spot using buffhead and react accordingly) is unnecessary.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/766303006

[Neverever]

Dusted my squig off the otherday and respecced it from melee to ranged been playing it on and off since as I was curious if it was as bad as people were saying. Ranged squig seems fine honestly, combined with the utility, damage and mobility the class is still incredibly strong small scale and for general group play. Aoe wise it doesnt compete with its melee build but why should it? You risk making an already strong spec unrivaled.

Short clip from the stream today albeit against unorganised order it gives an example of their potency both damage and survivability, It didn't feel like a class that needs a rework or buff unless you look at maybe making the other pets more viable instead of just the spiked squig or an attack range increase to buff their survivability in larger fights as the pet is very squishy (maybe tied to a CD ability). Leakypants made a few good suggestions in a thread the otherday but buffing the damage in anyway other than a maybe CD like squig frenzy (which order can spot using buffhead and react accordingly) is unnecessary.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/766303006

What you do in the video (pug farming with a pocket healer) is done with some other named RSHs as well like Jurki or Teefz. If you look at your video the only healer is a MWP and most of your targets are almost already dead because of fall dmg. The problem is you would only be able to kill pugs getting no heals ( Your dmg performance on healed targets on this video https://www.twitch.tv/videos/766421802 can actually give you a clue on what I mean. You are not able to get anyplayers here who actually gets heals.. Some of them you can't even get below %50 ). That can actually be done better by DD-Shammies just check some ddshammy twitch channels and youtube videos you will see what I mean. Please try RSH on healed targets, 6vs6 and large scale fights and share your experience since you have started giving it a try.

Beside all, I agree that Leakypants's suggestions were reasonable and are worth to be taken in consideration. What RSH needs is a slight QoL improvement to make it viable in any of the group vs group fights. Having pet granted buffs stay even when the pet is dead like it is in WL's case is also another good one since it wouldn't really add that much to the class considering the buffs are not that great and the time spent without pets (when the pet is dead and on CD ) is obviously a short moment of time that wouldn't make that much of a difference. However, it might also give possibility to new spec experiments on RSH play without a pet.

[Foltestik]

im playing my SH now (conq gear) and its pretty good you can still kill staff, ofc you arent BW/Sorc.
But still you can kill and when needed aoe you can respec for melee, SH is in prettty good spot (really dont need that nerflike SW get )

[Wdova]

im playing my SH now (conq gear) and its pretty good you can still kill staff, ofc you arent BW/Sorc.
But still you can kill and when needed aoe you can respec for melee, SH is in prettty good spot (really dont need that nerflike SW get )

In all seriousnes, what we need is better geared/skilled SH players to actively post some feedback. You just started to play SH and telling its fine?

[Roos]

A good place to start would be to buff damage on something like explosive arrer.

Also move some of the utility spells from the squig to the herder. Why is the disarm still on the squig and not a herder ability?

Make squigs passive buffs persist after squig dies because it will either die instantly or just bug out and despawn.

Remove CD on squigs because of above reason.

Make squigs spawnable while moving.

Also saying there isnt enough feedback from players is a bit weird when there are like 5 people actually playing ranged sqsuig. Ofc there is not gonna be a lot of feedback.

[Ravai]

@ Neverever

I agree with your points on quality of life, some good suggestions especially in regard to the pets survivability this could be looked at for sure, we see things a little differently from our experiences with their dps however.
Everybody knows we have dps am/sham in the game but do we really just compare every class to them when it comes to small scale balance? "Oh the dps sham can do that better so X class must be buffed to its level". Dps sham is a much better solo class and very good when paired with a healer but it cant secure kills as well as a squig herder due to lack of instant DDs and the inability to apply damage ontop of your dots whilst moving, one tick bunch of waaghs dont count . it also suffers on healed targets more than a squig herder does due to this imo especially if your having to kite. A staple of playing a ranged squig is being able to dps whilst your kiting, if you cant do this then yes the ranged squig will feel like **** and you'll die alot. I think this is a problem most squigs face and I can count on one hand the players who have mastered it, you mentioned 2 of them.

The ranged squig herders kit enable them to pressure weak targets and evade death due to both the run away tactic and instant pet ability. Add on top of this a self punt which snares (40% btw), a pet disarm, knockdown in squig armour + huge aoe knockback your given all the tools to escape whilst maintaining constant ranged dps on the move, my damage feels great now in invader+vanq and no bloodlord weapon. I cant speak for Jurki or Teefz but their damage didnt get worse with sov and the pve stuff! I support leakys changes but you have to be so careful buffing damage on a dps class with this much mobility and utility.

Change and reworks are fun but reading this thread you'd get the impression squig is much weaker than shadow warrior which is far from the truth, the damage is fine if your applying the correct rotations, are people not applying heal debuff or running a meme plink build? Your always going to struggle dpsing through a healed guarded target by yourself but is squig alone in this?

To answer some questions you had.

Healed targets - covered this a bit already but it Kind of applies to all dps right, if your detaunted or your target is recieving heals from sometimes multiple sources (like some of the moments in your link) it probably wont die by your solo dps alone especially as a rdps class that isnt a sorc/bw.

6v6 - Due to them having to build glasscannon and having no aoe detaunt(tank kick = rip) ranged dps as a whole have never been optimal for any 6v6 comp other than the bw/sorc proc meta 4-5 years ago,they have viability in solo ranked now due to skill differences more than anything (dps sham/am especially). In any true guild 6v6 a ranged dps would be focused and chain killed regardless of the class or player vs a x2 melee comp. stagger, champ challenge, demolishing strike on cooldown, have fun!

Large scale fights - Outside of roaming and engaging on large scale fights which are fun and weighted again on target selection I cant comment on actual 24v24 as a ranged sh, but the squig has the melee spec for this purpose, they cant be jack of all trades master of everything in one tree