1 star IC

[TreefAM]

Destro really needs to start making proper warbands to push forts since we do have a lack of ranged dps that can melt people on the door.
And by proper I don't mean just a 2/2/2 setup, a good starting point would be to force ALL your tanks in the fort to respec to snb, 2h is useless, even 2h bgs are super useless in fort and might as well be afking.
Second, you need to start getting rdps inside, magus, doesn't matter if rift or simple aoe, aoe sorcs.
Third tell your choppas not to GTDC the door, save mara kd when in, tell borcs to punt the gate, get healers to aoe heal by the gate at the start of the push, it helps no one if they run in first and just die.
AND if you really want to push ANY funnel, get 4 snb bgs with their mid tree m4, pair them with snb borcs and your party will be immortal for a long enough period of time to break the funnel.
I know that people mostly lost interest and just lvl whatever alt and go into fort with useless nonsense, but with useless nonsense you will not push a defended fort, right now the only way we break forts is either if the other side has no people online or when a double push happens and the organized warbands all go to one while leaving the pugs as sacrifice.
Warband leaders, don't be afraid to tell your people to respec, if they don't want to, kick them, easy.

[farng84]

I do agree on the basic premise, yes, aoe rdps are desperately needed to pressure before and during the push and we should try and see more in organised warbands.
I also agree that 2h tanks are far from useful in forts, for such content I really need my tank to tank and my healer to heal...
But please note that I should also have options for both my attacks and defence, different strategies should be valid (for both sides) in different context.
For example the meta composition you refer too could definitively work, but is it likely that people getting in will mainly fit in the meta?
Also, I strongly doubt that the composition of order defending is strictly the best meta, they are people who got reservation (there might be lvl 16 inside or a 90% engineers population)
If order always have a best meta composition (I wonder how do they manage to get only the "right" ppl in) than destro would have to do the same, but since it is not true such extreme measure as you propose should not be necessary and just increase the amount of rdps to a threshold where they do become relevant and put real pressure on the defenders should suffice to have balanced pushes/defences

[TreefAM]

That's the thing, order doesn't need a meta composition to hold or push forts.
With enough rdps aoe on the doors and outside you will have a weakened enemy that can't do anything.
And when order pushes well, destro does have a tendency to throw the forts, often when I'm leading a full defensive warband in discord, we do amazing in stage 2 but when stage 3 stars we're the only actual warband holding the door and we get ran over.
It has been like this forever, it's like people forget when forts were end game destro players were counting how much forts they need to lose to get the gear

[nuadarstark]

Guys you wouldn't believe how similar this discussion is to the one Order has about the cities, it's almost humorous how similar the discussions are. The fact is that keep/fort meta is very different from open rvr meta, which is very different from small scale meta, which is different from city meta. It's just easy as that.

Order has advantage in fort and keep sieges cause they have tons of rDPS and people have overtime learned how to work around what destro brings to the sieges - that's why people m2 dry push and why some WB leaders literally have 100% success rate with them. Cause they freaking know that most of DPS destro has is melee, which was to mitigate much more damage together with tanks to survive AoE pressure on the door than ranged in the back (in case of Order defenses). So you pressure the door immidiately while people still have low HP due to wounds debuffs, then you coordinate which WB has which side you push into and which you mitigate, pop morales and pour in while interrupting everything you can. Unless some of the top guilds have their full WBs in, it works all time cause pugs have no idea what to do.

Order is also freaking tooth and nail when it comes to defending. It's something honed over time due to all the "inferior side" trashtalk they had to endure. Unless few well known people are on and are outright raging in chat for people to throw or move their wbs from lord room, people will do everything they can to deny the fort, especially if it's something like double or tripple fort when destro is zerging in EU time.

Organise, bring meta comp for the game mode, get better. it's clear than enough players on either side know what's up.