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why order tanks are worst than destro?

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Rekoom
Posts: 109

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#21 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:00 am

WoDS is used while walking up to the fight to avoid taking more damage than necessary, it's used to buy some time for your healers to top you up, it's used to punish channels like lotsa arrers and ruthless assault, it's used to allow you guard better, yada yada

How you cannot see that an on demand, no CD, 50% dodge/parry/disrupt buff is better than 15% is the real issue here. The 10% damage increase is moot as SMs by default do a LOT more damage than BOs because they do spirit damage and can debuff it.

And to previous posters: how can you not see it is better to debuff 400 spirit damage when the soft cap is ~800 compared to debuffing 990 armor when most classes run around with at least 4000?
Rekoom - 80+ BO

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junkxjunk
Posts: 33

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#22 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:32 pm

wpc56 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:43 pm Open the same career trainer and show me where's equivalent for knight? You had total of 8 posts so you won't know the history, daemonclaw "was" runefang tactic that dev took away from knight and gave it to chosen (weaker version)

Chosen at least have a "viable" way to do magic dmg, it's nice to have the option. Knight have to take 15% increased dmg to do magic dmg. If we want to truly "mirror" class, how about chosen take 15% increased dmg when they do magic dmg? Fair and balance?
I agree its 'nice to have an option', but its not demonclaw is such an op tactic. the weaponskill does nearly nothing, especially when focusing on spiritdamage. Its a 150ish STR proc. thats it. EVerything else than outgoing damage (which is pitiful on both cosen and KOtbs) is so much more grouporiented in the Knights Skillset. Most work 1h and 2h. A 2h Chosen doesnt enhance his mates or debuff the enemy at all, besides auras and guard.
Id gladly trade my 20% dmg advantage that i get for totally gimping my defense for the Bag of Tools the Knight. And again, No one is running the spirit damage tactic in any semis erious environment. Oprresive blows is usually enough and doesnt have the big drawback.

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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#23 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:45 pm

BG is still better than IB , but the rest are so so

What I think would be great though would be on the Order Tanks the better gear you get the larger the armour looks, so then end up looking big and beefy with the armour on, so they end up being similar size models to Des tanks. IB still looks like a midget with Sov on while Des tanks look like big bruisers.

lyncher12
Posts: 542

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#24 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 pm

i love how the people whining about the minute differences are soloers

M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#25 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:36 pm

lyncher12 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 pm i love how the people whining about the minute differences are soloers
Because many people like to run solo from time to time, as your guild WB, or roaming party isn't always there online waiting for you...
While personaly I'd have separate character just for soloing on Order, I guess some people would prefer their mains to be more versatile and enjoyable during different part of game.

wpc56
Suspended
Posts: 118

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#26 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:09 pm

Rekoom wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:00 am WoDS is used while walking up to the fight to avoid taking more damage than necessary, it's used to buy some time for your healers to top you up, it's used to punish channels like lotsa arrers and ruthless assault, it's used to allow you guard better, yada yada

How you cannot see that an on demand, no CD, 50% dodge/parry/disrupt buff is better than 15% is the real issue here. The 10% damage increase is moot as SMs by default do a LOT more damage than BOs because they do spirit damage and can debuff it.

And to previous posters: how can you not see it is better to debuff 400 spirit damage when the soft cap is ~800 compared to debuffing 990 armor when most classes run around with at least 4000?
In the same funnel situation, a Borc hit "You wot" and "use can't hit me" have much higher mitigation in funnel. The point is that ability is a click and forgot WHILE you can do something else, hitting someone (with 10% more dmg) or trying to survive (with 30% more defense/15% more passive defense)

SM main dmg comes from dmg proc tactics and that's why they top the chart because it's all fluff dmg that gets group healed through.

Borc is the ONLY tank in game that can reach close to 2x crit modifier as tank (with racial tactic and sov set bonus). Borc have much better burst than SM, even without the free 10% dmg that no one else gets.

sogeou
Posts: 412

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#27 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:46 pm

junkxjunk wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:32 pm
I agree its 'nice to have an option', but its not demonclaw is such an op tactic. the weaponskill does nearly nothing, especially when focusing on spiritdamage. Its a 150ish STR proc. thats it. EVerything else than outgoing damage (which is pitiful on both cosen and KOtbs) is so much more grouporiented in the Knights Skillset. Most work 1h and 2h. A 2h Chosen doesnt enhance his mates or debuff the enemy at all, besides auras and guard.
Id gladly trade my 20% dmg advantage that i get for totally gimping my defense for the Bag of Tools the Knight. And again, No one is running the spirit damage tactic in any semis erious environment. Oprresive blows is usually enough and doesnt have the big drawback.
What other tank class can almost have 3 softcap of main stats? Besides a chosen.

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Skullgrin
Posts: 837

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#28 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:04 pm

sogeou wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:46 pm What other tank class can almost have 3 softcap of main stats? Besides a chosen.

I'm gonna need screen shot evidence that a Chosen can softcap 3 stats, along with a detailed explanation of how it can be done. Because if it can be done I wanna do it.

As to why Order tanks seem to be a bit lackluster compared to the Destro ones (and there have been lots of interesting ideas posted here) - I think at the very core it has to do with Order tanks being more defense oriented and just not having as easy access to as many burst damage abilities. Order tanks just don't seem to have a "finishing move" the way Destro tanks do. This of course being from a mostly solo point of view.
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Thargrimm - Chosen 40/88
Thargrimmm - Ironbreaker 40/80

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#29 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:42 pm

Skullgrin wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:04 pm
sogeou wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:46 pm What other tank class can almost have 3 softcap of main stats? Besides a chosen.

I'm gonna need screen shot evidence that a Chosen can softcap 3 stats, along with a detailed explanation of how it can be done. Because if it can be done I wanna do it.

As to why Order tanks seem to be a bit lackluster compared to the Destro ones (and there have been lots of interesting ideas posted here) - I think at the very core it has to do with Order tanks being more defense oriented and just not having as easy access to as many burst damage abilities. Order tanks just don't seem to have a "finishing move" the way Destro tanks do. This of course being from a mostly solo point of view.
Thing is, that destro tanks are just as same defensively or even better thanks to built in mitigation elements, like BG's 100% parry or Chosen's amazing turtle ability or BO's self buffs. This is an inherited fact from the original game. The problem is that while this is the case, destro tanks also turned to be dps machines lately and that is thanks to the changes of the RoR staff.

Chosen vs. Knight is great example: knight was the physical dps guy, chosen was the magical dps guy. So knight had Runefang that boosted its str/ws for physical dps and Chosen had magical damage on some abilities (not on all for a freakin good reason), it balanced out pretty well. RoR staff decided to castrate knight off its physical dps potential with nerfing Runefang, while buffed up chosen giving them magical damage on every abilities. Why is this a problem? Because the spirit damage type has 4 different debuffs from various destro classes, while for knight there is only one elemental debuff on order and its the knight's own measy aura of -150. This was the reason why not every chosen ability did spiritual damage, because it quickly goes overkill with all the spirit damage debuffs flying around. So this, as you can see, multiple level of nerfs/buffs difference all on the favor of the chosen. No surprise people really dont enjoy knight anymore (me included), its a castrated shitty class that lost its edge, while chosen became a dps monster, while both classes being the same defensively as before.

The result is the awesome dps balance like this, while a top geared chosen does 5-6x the damage of a top geared dps specced IB, while being same tanky as before, giving up basically nothing:

Image


And you wonder why destro tanks are more popular...
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

TreefAM
Posts: 676

Re: why order tanks are worst than destro?

Post#30 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:47 pm

On my rank 37 IB i had 80% parry with the proc. With good gear I could probably hit the 100% parry you are whining about the BGs having as well (See no reason to go for that much anyhow, I'm not gonna guard a choppa lol)
Also having above 75% of any defensive stat doesn't really matter much.
And still this whole **** thread is about meme solo roamers.

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