Gaurd and parry

[Rekoom]

3 things to think about;

1, Attacker strike-through. Sov gear can carry a lot of strike-through for DPS. The avoidance system has been changed a bunch on this server. I'm not positive if stat/gear/tactic/ability strike-through all hits your avoidance the same or not honestly.

2, Abilities tactics that decrease your avoidance. IE Pierce Defenses, Discerning Offense, or WS debuffs. Or shatters/enchantment clears that wipe your avoidance buffs.

3, Straight undefendables. Morales, Rampage, most DPS/Tanks have at least 1 ability that is undefendable. There isn't a way to tell if guard damage was or wasn't defendable(unless you defend it obv) so there could be a significant amount of hits you are counting as failed parries when you never got the check.

Maybe adding something to the combat log to demonstrate this guard damage was undefendable would help to alleviate this feeling, doubt that's doable though.

This is ignoring the fact that you need dodge/disrupt also... That's why I've always stacked as much block as possible.


Lastly, 53% parry(per fenris' example) isn't all that much when strike through(from WS, abilities, tactics, and gear) and when you also get debuffed. There is a reason over capping armor/resis, or going heavy into the negative chance to be crit is a thing. Even more so when almost HALF of your parry is coming from a shatterable enchantment with 5s uptime...

Debuffs hurt, especially when the opponent uses ones that stack(ability-tactic-morale). A SW can knock 25% off your parry chance, and 35% off your block chance vs their attacks(pierce defenses, discerning offense, acid arrow. Not a meta build but not the point). Plan accordingly.

2 handed tanks then need to build into dodge/disrupt as much as parry?

[Esperflame]

2 handed tanks then need to build into dodge/disrupt as much as parry?

Most of us already cap dodge disrupt in renown. It's kind of required as a tank.

[Ysaran]

2 handed tanks then need to build into dodge/disrupt as much as parry?

Most of us already cap dodge disrupt in renown. It's kind of required as a tank.

that's true but not all tanks can further increase their dodge/disrupt. for example IB can increase parry but not dodge/disrupt. but i play only IB so actually i dont have any intel on how other tanks work

[TreefAM]

Why would you cap on dodge/disrupt, it's not like you're gonna be facing a lot of ranged anywhere outside of a keep siege.

[Fenris78]

About my previous example, yes obviously it was coming from various debuffs (probably tactics or skills since I took those stats from T3 sc, so no Sov here yet ).

But I still strongly believe that guard avoidance should be like :

1. Guard should ONLY rely on Parry/Block to avoid heavy discrepancy, like KotBS Disrupt tactic being linked to a Shield, vs Chosen Speccable skill wich doesnt, or IB/BO inability to increase Disrupt, etc.
This way you still have a clear advantage by wearing a shield, and classes now are nearly equal vs. avoidances ergonomy, since guard is a base ability for all tanks and works the same for all.

2. No guard damage should be undefendable for the tank or apply a debuff through guarded player only ; there will be a real utility to be guarded AND not to die after your tank.
Imagine Rampaging Slayers or Choppas applying -50% parry and block to the tank ONLY by hitting guarded player, or Magi/Inge throwing undefendable 2k+ hits : tank should always be able to defend half damage, especially since there is zero mitigation (see below).

3. Guard damage should not totally ignore the tank mitigations ; either make Toughness relevant, or resistances/armor, or both.
Currently guarding or not a player is the difference between being immortal and dying in 5s, when said player is papermade, and being a tank mean barely anything here...

You cannot apply ALL disadvantage on the act of guarding, or it wont happen. Either you have unavoidable damages BUT mitigate them, or the opposite with same BASE avoidances for everyone (with nearly equal access to parry/block for all tanks, unlike dodge/disrupt).

You cannot have both inconvenient ; no tank want to take double damage for free. No one.
Expect no tank guarding anymore if one of those rules stay unchanged.

[Acidic]

Y something should be done to sort this, Gaurd is the main point of a 2h tank in a team, they give up dps potential as soon as play a tank so they should have better results from guard than current to provide Gaurd. Just feel the game moves more and more to brain dead dps only blob your slayers/choppers and go. The blobbing was sorted but after moral nerf it’s on its way back
Think the change should be put back to how it was on live

[Bozzax]

Several changes to guard mechanic and zero improvments to the game

[Esperflame]

I hope they fix this soon. I only play tanks and I can't play it like this.

[Ysaran]

I hope they fix this soon. I only play tanks and I can't play it like this.

fix what? the bug or the change? because the guard change is up since three years, so i guess it is not a problem if it was noticed only now. and the bug... actually no one has proved that there is a bug so there is nothing that need to be fixed.
prove that guard isn't working as intended* and make a ticket on the bugtracker

*i mean as intended after the 2017 change

[Acidic]

Guard has been using attack-specific avoidance for a couple years now, it just shows up as Parry because they weren't able to change the client in the past, or couldn't figure it out.

From what u are saying the change is we now see that the parry does not work rather than parry change ?
Would be interesting if you could say when the client change was made and formula change, looked could not see

But either way something recently majorly affected parry on gaurd ,

There hasn't been a change, someone noticed ranged attacks weren't being parried when their parry buff was running, and that's because Guard uses dodge/disrupt for ranged attack mitigation, which was probably at baseline rates.

Could we get the justification of the change ?
I think this is such a significant change to performance of the tank class (in a negative way ) that some clarification should be given bearing in mind the itemization needs this brings which do not match the sets that are available combined with the wounds nerf highlighting the problem.