The State of RvR and the Elephant in the Room

[Acidic]

This is already a thing. Holding BO's empowers your keep lord. It's not 0 damage, but it's a significant reduction.

Think this is the problem, there is a mechanic but it’s nit significant enough , it can be ignored with minimal impact. He won’t wipe u while tanked so funnel and PVE lord down work. For a mechanic to work and have an impact it can not be ignorable.

It is the difference between wiping a lord in 2 minutes, and taking 15 minutes to grind him down. If the defending realm isn't in a position to challenge the lord room, then it really doesn't matter how many BO's they hold.

The thing being that even at 15 minutes vs 2 minutes that will not force attackers to spread and take the bo’s
They will just ignore mechanic and funnel that 15 minutes.

What I mean is if the mechanic was that lord does not take damage unless 2 BO were taken or heals significant numbers per BO then the mechanic can not be ignored. Hard including a mechanic, rather than software inclusion where it makes life harder.
Obviously consideration that smaller pop sizes and huge pops need to be considered so we don’t have nascar bo like fort bo etc

[wargrimnir]

Think this is the problem, there is a mechanic but it’s nit significant enough , it can be ignored with minimal impact. He won’t wipe u while tanked so funnel and PVE lord down work. For a mechanic to work and have an impact it can not be ignorable.

It is the difference between wiping a lord in 2 minutes, and taking 15 minutes to grind him down. If the defending realm isn't in a position to challenge the lord room, then it really doesn't matter how many BO's they hold.

The thing being that even at 15 minutes vs 2 minutes that will not force attackers to spread and take the bo’s
They will just ignore mechanic and funnel that 15 minutes.

What I mean is if the mechanic was that lord does not take damage unless 2 BO were taken or heals significant numbers per BO then the mechanic can not be ignored. Hard including a mechanic, rather than software inclusion where it makes life harder.
Obviously consideration that smaller pop sizes and huge pops need to be considered so we don’t have nascar bo like fort bo etc

Correct. It's not intended to stop a realm from winning, just slow them down enough that defenders can regroup and push on their own. Standing next to a couple flags on opposite ends of the map isn't a winning strategy. If you get pushed out of your keep defense, it's basically over. You've already lost. The flags are one last stall tactic to regroup. If you can't be bothered, don't expect them to suddenly turn into a win condition for an overwhelmed and beaten defense.

[p00ky]

Errr.....is it only me getting up to 3 royals in zone flip bags atm? Which was a great update btw.

I agree to the fact that keep fights have become pretty dull, with little to no attemps of defence unless equal numbers, making zone flips quicker and there being TOO many cities at the moment. Order pushing destro city every 4h some days is a bit much...

I cant agree with your opinion on cities "requiring no more effort or skill to participate than RvR".

Many of us actually enjoy that endgame content of the game and do play towards participating in as many of them as possible. Many a times we have had good Pug vs Pug fights as also a nice premade vs premade. Furthermore, I would say it is currently the only "challenging" large scale pvp area in the game. General RvR area can never be competitive as numbers are never equal. One side always has a zerg which will just steamroll over the other. oRvR is for fun, zerging, 6 man etc as you already stated.

Please dont remove the only challenging group effort part of this game

[Nosun]

I agree with a lot of your post but i'm not expecting anything to change as they recently made changes to further increase the speed rush thru zones and quick citys they obviously want this kind of orvr and no real fights over zones.

[Jastojan]

Hi,
as Nosun wrote. I agree with a lot of your post too.
I play in lakes mostly, I do not play cities. I do have much more fun in RvR zones. If I want more small-scale and organized action I can join Scenarios or ranked (as premade). Throwing all the interresting content (all the rvr zones) only to get one fast (and boring mostly) city is nobrainer for me. Boring due it is a lottery - pug vs. premade (maybe 8 of 10 cities in my case). It is just me, other players could enjoy city content very much.
To be honest I would like to see the players to be more motivated to play and win rvr zones - I think the influence reward system has a huge potential and it should be reworked after you reach RR60+. Once you reach 60RR there should be a new influence bar which could grow much more slowly/much more inluence needed/ and new rewards. For example you (as 60RR+) will get 10 invader medals and 10 potion/elixires if you complete the new influence. If you are 70RR+ you will get royals as a reward. And if you complete it, the new influence bar will appear and so on. Tt is just an example, but i think there is a potential in it

[Caduceus]

Thank you all for all the reactions and feedback.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with concerns about the state of RvR.

I've read every reaction so far, and what I think is important to take into account is the following:

Together we can think of many ways to make RvR more engaging, and less of a procession. But with the current interaction between city and RvR this would likely be counterproductive. After all, what is the point of making RvR take longer, when people would rather rush through it to get their Royal Crests? It will only make undesirable behavior from players (advocating to throw/xrealming/complaining about stalemates) more likely to happen. This reward system is the root of a lot of our issues, and I think it needs to be addressed before we think about how to make RvR more engaging.

Another thing I'd like to add, is that it is not my intention to detract from people who enjoy City Sieges. I am very much in favor of having both forms of PvP exist along side each other so everyone can play in ways they enjoy the most. I just don't think the way RvR is suffering as a result of being a means to City Sieges is a desirable situation. When I stated it doesn't require more skill to participate in city than it does in RvR, I meant that in a very literal sense. Anyone can queue for city, just like anyone can enter the RvR lakes.

All in all, I think the current interaction between RvR and City Sieges is having negative effects on the quality of RvR. The main culprit here is the fact that City Sieges reward so much more Royal Crests. If it wasn't for the big rewards City Sieges provide, many people would not queue for city, especially those people who PUG cities just to get their crests.

I think rewarding people for spending time in RvR and engaging with the opposing faction will kill two birds with one stone. It will make people want to spend time in RvR again, and make good fights in RvR desirable, and it will increase the quality of City Sieges by not making City a mandatory stop for everyone who wants to get Royal Crests.

[VindicoAtrum]

This is already a thing. Holding BO's empowers your keep lord. It's not 0 damage, but it's a significant reduction.

Think this is the problem, there is a mechanic but it’s nit significant enough , it can be ignored with minimal impact. He won’t wipe u while tanked so funnel and PVE lord down work. For a mechanic to work and have an impact it can not be ignorable.

It is the difference between wiping a lord in 2 minutes, and taking 15 minutes to grind him down. If the defending realm isn't in a position to challenge the lord room, then it really doesn't matter how many BO's they hold.

Problem with this is that 15min lord beats splitting the zerg to try and hold any BOs and parts of it getting wiped. There's zero incentive to care. Kill the lord first, zerg out for BOs, zone is locked. This is every single zone lock without fail.