WLs are the new SHs

[Morf]

I would like some balance, but don't remove maras pull and WL fetch, those are helpfull things for breaking through lines and positioning.

One thing about pulls is the pull to zerg tactic which was very frustrating to be on the receiving end and the main reason why pulls where hated, how you could prevent this tho ? i dont think you can.

[Tesq]

It's not how pet should be used, it's a question about

risk vs reward

when you are rewarded for no risk something wrong.
Either make pet more useable and make their death more deep gameplay-wide would be better.
Not like a wl/squig cannot run to eat their pray but there should be conseguence.
Also wl/squig alone should not be able to do half of the damage of a player :/

They should add a small damage and do more damage only when togheter to their master not just exploiting the re-summon factor and be sent everywhere.

So you want to remove one of the niche abilities that WL had? Lul. Must be a Slayer/BW.

Fetch/Pounce were THE 2 defining abilities of the White Lion class. If we're removing either of those, then let's also remove rampage, BW heal debuff, KOTBS punt, etc. I could go on.

I dont know about Kobs punt or bw heal debuff but for sure rampage if nothing else at the very least should by reworked because 20s of undefendable attacks is broken as **** and made them even more better than choppas than they already were

Ramapage have not easy fix anything that buff or reduces by "%" is op for nature.

As general statement of what skill in war are considered:

Ingore = OP
% >>>>>>>>>> than value
passive buff >>>>>>> active buff
offensive ST/group buff >>>>>>>>> defensive ST/group buff(unless they make total mitigation like tank m4/sov healer crit remove)
active debuff >> active buff
passive debuff >> active debuff (that's why aura got nerfed)

With a 2h + like 6-8% from strengh you get like a 16-18% of block/parry ingore, that's with out count the 5% debuff some ranged classes have (that's alredy a 20%+).
Also rampage can be used as a cheap way to drop rage while it even do not require target.
And also benefith from that with a personal buff
Not last, the buff can last 20 sec so you even have 10 sec with ingore and a 25%+ damage as rage re-full itself in 10 seconds.

Slayer would tell that it can be removed. I would tell that if it can even be removed, it shouldn't be too much strong.. hence the case where some classes cannot remove it have a huge disadvantage. (And to be clear as tank they are chosen but this is not a complain, it's a general statement. If it cannot always be counter than it need to not be too much powerfull)

even if rampage would just ingore 25% for 10 sec it would be just very good skill. You could just slot the rage tactic an have every 10 sec -->10 sec of 25% ingore and +50% damage. But it would requrie a slot and a build around. the base tool would just be an anti tank skill.

That skill should be an anti tank tool not an aoe damage increase. Have it both ingore 100% be spammable, and make slayer have a so strong aoe rotation was as always a bad designed choice, like others in game.

Same for shatter limbs..... when choppa fasta got changed to 2 min war ***** dev left shatter limbs to 20 CD sec.....

[Kaitanaroyr]

[/quote]to see WL pets chasing lonely level 4 BWs across a scenario and the owner never in sight is disheartening.

When I played WL I felt that the heart and soul of the class was to fight ALONGSIDE your lion. there is even a skill called COORDINATED STRIKE.[/quote]
Heart and soul of the class was revenge+loner till buffed then still loner also WLs chasing bws i gotta see that

[Kaitanaroyr]

Tesq that would take alot of work plus making a new buff system for the wl youd basically have to rework the class which theres no point as the games no where near t4 atm. (Pain in the ass to scroll on mobile so didn't quote) and the pets basically useless ones you get loner tactic onpy pop it for fetchand armor debuff

[Azarael]

Ignoring the fact that the pet has too much HP for now:

It's really not that much work to fix pets.

- Fix stat scaling so that pets scale absolutely with the master - if violating those stupid training buffs and innate "50% of owner stat X" transferrals is necessary to do this, then so be it

- If necessary, reduce AoE damage taken by pets

- Modify the pet cooldown timer

[Tesq]

As aza said is not so hard ( dev done from scrap all AI for pet so).
And i add, it dont need to be done now....btw pet AI and stats need to be different here on ror, not just for the sake of---->balance!! But mostly because pet were handle serverside so we can say it was balance around that way to be handled. Having not the data mean dev have to do something themself, and so look at scaling properly pet AI with stats. The better the AI work the less stats have to be strong (not like pet need to be scum just a general statement).

[Ototo]

To be fair if people criticize the cheap use of WL pet they should also criticize the cheap use of SH pet.

I see a flaw behind Jonathanmurphy's reasoning: "WL is a pet class so I don't understand why using the pet is criticised" Obviously the pet must be used. The question is: Do you use the pet as a helper, a comrade in arms, do you actually fight ALONGSIDE your trusty friend, be it as a melee if you are a WL or as a ranged fighter if you are a SH? Or do you send your pet to fight the battle where YOU should be the main actor, the protagonist, and meanwhile you stay at a safe distance (that means outside melee range for WL and further away than 100 ft for SH)?

I can't really criticize that cheap use of the pet, but I surely despise it and look at it with disappointment and sadness. Everyone can do as they like, I will never rage or whine or get mad at it. It's a lawful choice. It's not hacking nor cheating of any kind. It is only sad imho.

In t1 it had always been easy for a SH to send their pet against a lowbie clothie without self heals and get super easy kills while you stand outside your warcamp watching the whole scene with your binoculars and chat to your mates.

To see WL pets chasing lonely level 4 BWs across a scenario and the owner never in sight is disheartening.

When I played WL I felt that the heart and soul of the class was to fight ALONGSIDE your lion. there is even a skill called COORDINATED STRIKE.

Underlined part: would be funny to see a Lion chassing down a RDPS in his same realm. Im surprised nobody noticed that the argument was an "ad populum" logical falacy.....

[Xanax]

The pet actually has too much HP right now. It needs fixing.

Otherwise, the pet's ability damage should match live. Don't know about the auto attack, because I had to guess at it. I think the AA is classed as that from a green one-handed weapon of the pet's level.

Just to clarify: Do WL *and* SH pet HPs need fixing... Or just WL?

And is it legit for SH pets to be able to attack through walls and follow Order halfway across the zone -- Or is this something that will be fixed as well?

Thanks.

[Azarael]

Both WL and SH pets need fixing.

SH pets can attack through walls because we can't do LoS checks on them. This will not change any time soon.

[Xanax]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.