Class matchup in City - which is better

[Gurf]

WL is frontline brust class, Mara has utility. İf wl get mara's properties then no need any other class. WL is far better class than Mara. You ppl thinks that Mara is too op but Mara only spam one aeo skill, kd and aeo distrupt. Mara's aeo damage very low compared to others. But order only looks at the damage score and says that WOoooo Mara is too op.

1. Mara only spam aoe kd and aoe disrupt (better than wl's), these skills are HUGE in city's close quarters and add-up to destro's already strong utility
2. Mara damage is not very low, it is not even low.
3. after recent changes mara is not too op anymore, class with high utility and survivability should not have high aoe damage
4. Yes mara and WL are different, st wl>mara and vice versa in aoe spec, but this topic is about city not small-scale play

İ dont know what are u saying. WL and Mara have almost equal aeo. They both have 50% armor penet with aeo tactic and aeo distrupt. Mara has aoe kd and that is the difference. WLs aoe damage far better than Mara. Also aeo Mara nerfed recently so stop whinning.

WL has single target disorient increasing build up times, while Mara disorient is aoe, which in City where aoe healing is important it makes a big difference.

[emiliorv]

Warrior Priest ===== DOK - For healing both the same

im only taking in consideration healing spec:
Warrior Priest >>>>> DOK => WP can bring group wounds buff and have higher healing output (ED).

[agemennon675]

WL is frontline brust class, Mara has utility. İf wl get mara's properties then no need any other class. WL is far better class than Mara. You ppl thinks that Mara is too op but Mara only spam one aeo skill, kd and aeo distrupt. Mara's aeo damage very low compared to others. But order only looks at the damage score and says that WOoooo Mara is too op.

1. Mara only spam aoe kd and aoe disrupt (better than wl's), these skills are HUGE in city's close quarters and add-up to destro's already strong utility
2. Mara damage is not very low, it is not even low.
3. after recent changes mara is not too op anymore, class with high utility and survivability should not have high aoe damage
4. Yes mara and WL are different, st wl>mara and vice versa in aoe spec, but this topic is about city not small-scale play

İ dont know what are u saying. WL and Mara have almost equal aeo. They both have 50% armor penet with aeo tactic and aeo distrupt. Mara has aoe kd and that is the difference. WLs aoe damage far better than Mara. Also aeo Mara nerfed recently so stop whinning.

Do you want to know how Mara have more aoe than a lion ? Here take a look: Growing instability, concussive jolt, mouth of tzeentch, feeding on fear. Rest might be considered similar: Wrecking ball=whirling axe, demolition=slashing blade. Wave of mutilation echoing roar(both fluf but wave deals more dmg)

[Gurf]

I think the only main difference between RP and Zealot survivability is that RP gets a racial armour tactic, pretty much all core skills, heals and tactics are exactly the same, potentially Zelaot can have more with Wind of Insanity and speed of morale. If I had a choice between armour or morale tactic I would take morale.

I think the survivability between AM and Shammy is by far the biggest difference, to the extent that AM is often the first to be targeted while Shammy one of the last

Halved CC?

So the main reason in your opinion why Shaman is tankier than AM is because of the toughness buff?

Half duration of knockdown, which I find is mostly useful when out in rvr trying to survive burst of WE, in City would usually use something else as I doesn't do much about all the knockbacks and pulls flying around.

Shaman have speed increase and auto detaunt tactic combined with toughness and sticky feet means chasing a Shammy is usually not worth the hassle, even in City where there is less space to run.

[Nameless]

I think the only main difference between RP and Zealot survivability is that RP gets a racial armour tactic, pretty much all core skills, heals and tactics are exactly the same, potentially Zelaot can have more with Wind of Insanity and speed of morale. If I had a choice between armour or morale tactic I would take morale.

I think the survivability between AM and Shammy is by far the biggest difference, to the extent that AM is often the first to be targeted while Shammy one of the last

Halved CC?

I would gladly trade my halved cc for insta focused mind also the pull game is very rough for rps so no idea how rp is tougher that zealot I would say it is close or even at zealot favour if u see all the picture

[Foofmonger]

1. Mara only spam aoe kd and aoe disrupt (better than wl's), these skills are HUGE in city's close quarters and add-up to destro's already strong utility
2. Mara damage is not very low, it is not even low.
3. after recent changes mara is not too op anymore, class with high utility and survivability should not have high aoe damage
4. Yes mara and WL are different, st wl>mara and vice versa in aoe spec, but this topic is about city not small-scale play

İ dont know what are u saying. WL and Mara have almost equal aeo. They both have 50% armor penet with aeo tactic and aeo distrupt. Mara has aoe kd and that is the difference. WLs aoe damage far better than Mara. Also aeo Mara nerfed recently so stop whinning.

Do you want to know how Mara have more aoe than a lion ? Here take a look: Growing instability, concussive jolt, mouth of tzeentch, feeding on fear. Rest might be considered similar: Wrecking ball=whirling axe, demolition=slashing blade. Wave of mutilation echoing roar(both fluf but wave deals more dmg)

I mean tactics aren't AoE this isn't correct. I'll clear this up for both of you, since I play both a Marauder and a WL.

1. The Marauder "does" have more AoE abilities than the White Lion. This is a fact, and it's specifically the following abilities: Concussive Jolt (aoe KD), Wave of Mutiliation (AoE DoT ws/ini debuff), and Wave of Terror (aoe morale drain). So it's 3 more abilities, one of which (Wave of Terror) most Marauders do not run since it's in another tree and you can't grab that + all the other AoE abilities (even with Sov +2, and have a good build).

2. Marauder and WL AoE damage is overall similar, as the abilities that the Marauder has over the WL are generally utility (knockdown, ws/ini debuff) and not damaging. The main sources of AoE damage for these classes is Slashing Blade/Demo, and Whirling Axe/Wrecking Ball.

3. Marauders tend to have higher effective crit rates than WLs, but do less non-crit damage. The effective damage done by either class highly corresponds with the overall effective crit rate on a target (i.e., your crit, + or - the targets CTBC). If the effective crit rate is sub 50%, the WL tends to outdamage the Marauder, if the effective crit rate is over 50%, the Marauder tends to outdamage the WL. What this generally means is that WL damage tends to be higher on tanks/healers (because they run negative CTBC chances so the Marauder doesn't crit very often), where Marauders tend to do more damage to other DPS classes (who tend to not be as defensive and stack so much -CTBC).

After the Marauder AoE damage nerf, the Marauder/WL abilities have the same exact scaling btw.

[agemennon675]

İ dont know what are u saying. WL and Mara have almost equal aeo. They both have 50% armor penet with aeo tactic and aeo distrupt. Mara has aoe kd and that is the difference. WLs aoe damage far better than Mara. Also aeo Mara nerfed recently so stop whinning.

Do you want to know how Mara have more aoe than a lion ? Here take a look: Growing instability, concussive jolt, mouth of tzeentch, feeding on fear. Rest might be considered similar: Wrecking ball=whirling axe, demolition=slashing blade. Wave of mutilation echoing roar(both fluf but wave deals more dmg)

I mean tactics aren't AoE this isn't correct. I'll clear this up for both of you, since I play both a Marauder and a WL.

1. The Marauder "does" have more AoE abilities than the White Lion. This is a fact, and it's specifically the following abilities: Concussive Jolt (aoe KD), Wave of Mutiliation (AoE DoT ws/ini debuff), and Wave of Terror (aoe morale drain). So it's 3 more abilities, one of which (Wave of Terror) most Marauders do not run since it's in another tree and you can't grab that + all the other AoE abilities (even with Sov +2, and have a good build).

2. Marauder and WL AoE damage is overall similar, as the abilities that the Marauder has over the WL are generally utility (knockdown, ws/ini debuff) and not damaging. The main sources of AoE damage for these classes is Slashing Blade/Demo, and Whirling Axe/Wrecking Ball.

3. Marauders tend to have higher effective crit rates than WLs, but do less non-crit damage. The effective damage done by either class highly corresponds with the overall effective crit rate on a target (i.e., your crit, + or - the targets CTBC). If the effective crit rate is sub 50%, the WL tends to outdamage the Marauder, if the effective crit rate is over 50%, the Marauder tends to outdamage the WL. What this generally means is that WL damage tends to be higher on tanks/healers (because they run negative CTBC chances so the Marauder doesn't crit very often), where Marauders tend to do more damage to other DPS classes (who tend to not be as defensive and stack so much -CTBC).

After the Marauder AoE damage nerf, the Marauder/WL abilities have the same exact scaling btw.

What makes WL deal more aoe to tanks and healers ? Why do you think mara do less non-crit aoe ? As far as I know both careers have %50 armor ignore tactic Tactics are not aoe skills but they increase their dmg output did I miss something here ? And %50 crit dmg and %20 crit is significantly better

[Foofmonger]

What makes WL deal more aoe to tanks and healers ? Why do you think mara do less non-crit aoe ? As far as I know both careers have %50 armor ignore tactic Tactics are not aoe skills but they increase their dmg output did I miss something here ? And %50 crit dmg and %20 crit is significantly better

You missed Loner, which gives 25% more base damage which equates to 37.5% increase in critical damage (on average).

Basically here's how AoE tactic loadouts work for Maras/WL trying to do damage:

They will both run Flanking, and 50% armor ignore. These are roughly equivalent so that's that.

The Marauder will run 20% increased crit chance, and 50% increased crit damage.

The WL will run Loner (25% increased base damage, and 37.5% increase crit damage), + another tactic of their choice (tearing blade or jagged edge usually to get another source of AoE dot).

So roughly the damage difference is:

WL does 25% more non-crit damage + a dot.
Marauder crits 20% more often and when they do crit, they deal 12.5% more damage than a WL.

Therefore, if the Marauder isn't critting, than the WL will easily surpass their damage because the Marauder is highly dependent on crits for their scaling. The White Lion is not dependent on crits, because of the large base damage scaling increase of a Loner.

[agemennon675]

What makes WL deal more aoe to tanks and healers ? Why do you think mara do less non-crit aoe ? As far as I know both careers have %50 armor ignore tactic Tactics are not aoe skills but they increase their dmg output did I miss something here ? And %50 crit dmg and %20 crit is significantly better

You missed Loner, which gives 25% more base damage which equates to 37.5% increase in critical damage (on average).

Basically here's how AoE tactic loadouts work for Maras/WL trying to do damage:

They will both run Flanking, and 50% armor ignore. These are roughly equivalent so that's that.

The Marauder will run 20% increased crit chance, and 50% increased crit damage.

The WL will run Loner (25% increased base damage, and 37.5% increase crit damage), + another tactic of their choice (tearing blade or jagged edge usually to get another source of AoE dot).

So roughly the damage difference is:

WL does 25% more non-crit damage + a dot.
Marauder crits 20% more often and when they do crit, they deal 12.5% more damage than a WL.

Therefore, if the Marauder isn't critting, than the WL will easily surpass their damage because the Marauder is highly dependent on crits for their scaling. The White Lion is not dependent on crits, because of the large base damage scaling increase of a Loner.

Oh I see, thanks for the explanation

[Rapzel]

I think the only main difference between RP and Zealot survivability is that RP gets a racial armour tactic, pretty much all core skills, heals and tactics are exactly the same, potentially Zelaot can have more with Wind of Insanity and speed of morale. If I had a choice between armour or morale tactic I would take morale.

I think the survivability between AM and Shammy is by far the biggest difference, to the extent that AM is often the first to be targeted while Shammy one of the last

Halved CC?

I would gladly trade my halved cc for insta focused mind also the pull game is very rough for rps so no idea how rp is tougher that zealot I would say it is close or even at zealot favour if u see all the picture

Okay? What does this have to do with RP being more defensive over Zealot?
Unless they recently changed it FM doesn't prevent you from being pulled. It just makes you immune to being rooted, snared, silenced, disarmed and disabled. I never stated that OP was wrong in his assessment of Zealot vs. RP, I made a comparison of why you can't just look at "Shaman more defensive there for it's better than AM".

Healing AM requires a lot more carefulness and you cannot get caught out, there for I think it's a more difficult career to play, because Shaman is more forgiving because of the fact that they have access to auto detaunt and speed increase.
And my opinion why Shaman is better than AM is because
1. They are more defensive
2. Shaman's morale pump is easier to apply.