Why is Destro the way that it is?

[Mordd]

The only real issue on Destro side I've come across is a lack of healers in scenarios or rvr sometimes. It seems that when folks play a healer on Destro like a Shaman, they just go for DPS majority of the time. Also as DOK I've seen them not heal and DPS as well. I suppose they figure since they have 2 blades they can just run in and DPS? Instead of heal? There have been times where Destro has ignored the objective, but I've seen this for both sides as well. It varies if it's a group of random pugs or it at least has a guild group. Otherwise it seems the same to me.

Ive seen as the best example thunder valley which is almost completely objective driven, about an 80% win rate playing order and about 20% win rate playing destro and I can watch and easily see why.
Destro tends to run in larger clumps. 3 people can cap a BO just as fast as 6.
Destro tend to have long fights either over a BO they dont own or in the middle of now where. Ive seen 2 tanks and a healer tie up 6+ Destro for half the game. Order will tend to just avoid that fight all together.
Destro is more likely to have a large clump sit middle most of the game.

Order seems to be more accustomed to picking and choosing when to fight and when to avoid a fight and in running in smaller groups and at winning scenarios by other means than group up in a large group and fight.

[TreefAM]

Yeah order is pretty used to nascaring hard from forts and avoiding any sort of fight that they're actually good at TV lol, I can see why so many people prefer this map.
But your 20% this 80% that mean nothing, I had a 100% win rate on destro in TV when I qued up with 3other tanks while all of us were running some useless health regen builds and crossguarding and just sitting on the nearest flag to order netted us over 200 opressors in a day.

[nuadarstark]

Yeah order is pretty used to nascaring hard from forts and avoiding any sort of fight that they're actually good at TV lol, I can see why so many people prefer this map.
But your 20% this 80% that mean nothing, I had a 100% win rate on destro in TV when I qued up with 3other tanks while all of us were running some useless health regen builds and crossguarding and just sitting on the nearest flag to order netted us over 200 opressors in a day.

Sure, we're used to nascaring (like it's not the prime destro tactic for pugs too, and don't try to swing that, most people play on both sides and know it's no different on destro) from forts and that's why we tend to win in TV, lol...

People quickly understood what TV is about and went for it hard cause it could've been gamed as a very objective based SC. It's an Oppressor Med farm, nothing else. Most people don't enjoy scenarios just in general, but need the Meds to they do them, so for those people TV is just a weeklong farm fest.

And buddy, "Useless health regen builds"? You mean the ones that you run for solo or smallscale? Yeah I can't imagine those being good in SCs...

But keep on downplaying and spinning your bullshit.

Edit: Didn't even want to write this here, was pretty civil discussion to this point which I think is awesome. But damn does Treef always have to appear to spew some total nonsense.

[TreefAM]

Regen builds sure are good for solo, but for anything group related where you have even a single healer they are absolutely useless since you have that part covered already. So unless by smallscale you count ganking solo roamers and getting flattened by everything else, I don't see this.
Also "good for scs" yes, like I said, if you are a solo pug champ these ridiculous solo builds will help you, not so much your team though.

[billyk]

Ive seen as the best example thunder valley which is almost completely objective driven, about an 80% win rate playing order and about 20% win rate playing destro and I can watch and easily see why.

The reason is that Destro classes are stronger than Order classes, so Destro is accustomed to zerging. Skill or tactics are not needed (Not that Warhammer is a very skill-intensive game anyway).
This works well almost everywhere but in scenarios like TV, where zerging doesn't work (And may be even counter-productive!), they lose. That's all.
Compare Talabec Dam which is mainly about keeping mid controlled for the black pwoder barrels spawning there, and therefore lends itself to zerging: This scenario is almost impossible to win for Order.

Also, Destro knows this of course, and that's where all the whining comes from when an Order class isn't nerfed to death.

[Slayer90]

i think i'm gonna bookmark this thread. Very useful advice here and people are full of knowledge. I like it.

[TreefAM]

I love how "destro classes stronger than order and destro always zergs" but IC is constantly on 1 star.
I guess when order takes empty keeps it's just pure skill )

[xruptor]

I love how "destro classes stronger than order and destro always zergs" but IC is constantly on 1 star.
I guess when order takes empty keeps it's just pure skill )

Its my understanding that there was a mass exodus of guilds from Destro that migrated over to Order at one point. Since i've been told not to long ago Altdorf was constantly sacked. I'm new to the game so I'm not entirely sure if this is accurate.

[TreefAM]

It was one guild that plays one side for a couple of months and then the other, but even before they moved it was the case, and LOL it doesn't even matter since it's the pugs from random guilds that are pushing the zones.

[billyk]

I love how "destro classes stronger than order and destro always zergs" but IC is constantly on 1 star.
I guess when order takes empty keeps it's just pure skill )

The empty keeps are a result of the recent changes. Also, again, Warhammer doesn't need skill. If you don't keyboard turn and have a good rotation, the rest is gear and tactics.

City is another good example for a zerg-heavy scenario btw, hence why Destro usually wins cities. Better classes and better synergy between classes = better zerg.