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Why is Destro the way that it is?

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Jastojan
Posts: 221

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#111 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:31 pm

Wam wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm some people should not really talk about realm balance when they are so clueless and biased.

Both sides whine, must be a headache for any dev to read and try take anything valid / serious from it because its beyond redicilous at times especially from some people who should know better.

Some niche classes can do with a bit of love and tweaking but besides that its pretty fair. (I.e Engi/Magus pet mechanic drags it down as its easy to counter) RSH and some others.

/keep up the salt 8-)
Can´t agree more.

When I saw Billyk's post (if I imagine I am the dev I really would not know what to think) I thought I was dreaming. Dreaming a very crazy dream that I was crushing all the order with my dps zealot... 1vsX!

Enough for me today. xD

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xruptor
Posts: 111

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#112 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:10 pm

I've been saying it's pretty even/fair. At least as a new player my experience has been as such. There are some classes that shine a little bit better but that's about it. Some classes that do need an update as well. Example I would love to play a ranged Squig Herder but apparently right not they are not in a good spot. Overall though it seems somewhat okay.

My only gripe is as a caster on Destro I have to deal with WH, WL, and SW. On Order it's not as bad. But that's where healers and tanks with guard come in, I suppose.

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Naelar
Posts: 296

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#113 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:14 pm

TreefAM wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:43 am You are the ones that keep crying how destro is always zerging while the opposite is often the case, but when that happens you don't care, you just ride the zerg happily into empty keeps/forts.
Join something organized once and you'll see how order can also win, did my first organized order wb last night and we won vs OP msh/mara warband.
For some reason it seems that it's common to say that even cities are zerging, how is a 24 vs 24 zerging can any of you solo pug champs explain that to me?
The answer to this is simple: If your side does it, it's 'good tactics' and 'realm pride'. If the other side does it, it's a zerg. Especially if the other side wins.

(Note: I am using 'you' and 'your' in a general sense to describe one side or the other, not referring to you specifically.)

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#114 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:44 pm

I posted this just today:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40973

Last night, many keeps fell. Destro did a great job and we had a well informed and well organized leader. We did have one issue, a 2nd War band, had a group leader, that would communicate basic information, regarding to Order movements. This is fine in limited engagements. However, the need for detailed information is critical. In this Waaagh, we had a Black Orc that was relaying information better than the 2nd War band. From what i can tell, this was not done to step on toes or to challenge the "position" of the 2nd WB leader. A example of this is as follows...

WB leader 2: /1 Order out front.

Black Orc: /1:Order at main moving east, 15 plus. /say Tanks be ready to funnel, shift to rear if you are close. Watch flanks.

WB leader 2: I got this. this my wb.

I am not attempting to be critical of WB Leader 2 with this thread. However the Black Orc was giving better information, every time something was going on and offering a solution. He also used /say to give the info in his vicinity and or a recommendation. In doing this Black Orc was not clogging up /1 and /wb chat. Only detailed info he had to report on went into /1 for the War Boss to see.

This upset WB leader 2. He would comment, ' i got this' 'you only worry about keep gate' ' this is my wb i told you that already.' ' i am in charge.' and so on. Black Orc and WB L 2 where not in the same WB.

For me this is a induction that WB Leader 2 felt challenged or upset that someone else was doing what he/she wanted to do. Black Orc gave better info and he did not attempt to take control of the major workings of the Siege. The War Boss did not say a thing in regards to the Black Orc nor did he tell WB Leader 2 and Black Orc to cut the chatter. Which is the best call, in-fighting or picking a side would have upset one or both parties, i would think.

I am not aware if the War Boss gave War Band Leader 2 a role to fulfill. That was never brought up. I think that WB 2 was just a rando WB that was taking on a duty and was not appointed by the War Boss.

I felt better with Black Orc's info reporting and his /say responses. This went on for five keeps or so. Black Orc would report, WB L 2 would chime in with a counter to silence BO. I thought, i need to see whats going on and get a better idea of who is best to listen to other than the Boss. I hung around WB L 2, order would charge, he might report it, his WB would give chase. If the Black Orc was near or watching, he would say something like /1: small order group, routed going south wb 2 giving chase. WB L 2: * insulting or negative reply *

Once Black Orc gave the info of WB 2 giving chase, i saw some destro at the back of keep that had turned and moved to cover.

WB L 2: Did complete its tasks but without the full info, might have caused bigger issue for the siege.
Black Orc, saw this as a possible issue and did his best to relay detailed info.

This is a topic, i feel that Destro for the most part might fail at. Communication in a large or small operation is key. A close 2nd would be all members knowing what role he or she must play to gain victory. This requires information. This is the key to gain the upper hand, information.

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Glorian
Posts: 4980

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#115 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:08 pm

You see this as a destro Problem?

I have tried to lead city pugs with WB lead 2,3,4 and 5 in a 24 player Warband. :)

lyncher12
Posts: 542

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#116 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:58 pm

i like how what started as a troll topic by zarbix has gone this far

Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#117 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:04 pm

Wam wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm some people should not really talk about realm balance when they are so clueless and biased.

Its mostly a learn to play issue on both sides. When the majority of server struggles to play core easy classes to a high level its not hardly surprising... people clueless about their own build/spec/gear/renown and their own teammates, never mind opposite realm (see things impartially and not with your own bias). This server realm wise is way more balanced than live, individual/organisational wise not so much. Both sides have issues with learn to play, order more so even though they have just as strong class wise if not slightly stronger classes post morale nerf. Just the solo pug mentality and lack of teaming and seeking competition / self improvement as held order back since many many years (order should smash alot more than it does in city and orvr (without the zerg)), its why order's guilds always have trouble with recruitment and you see whiny posts about balance and trying to change the system when system is fine as it can be, just players are the issue. But people looking internally and admiting they could do better, and improve is very unlikely... its just the other side is op and life/war is unfair, change the system so i can get easy BIS rewards instantly without any effort or teaming in a mmo :lol:

Same with destro ragequiters who fight /5 organised pug and leave instead of farming broken solo que engi setups and proclaim to be "organised" and searching for fair fights. Both sides whine, must be a headache for any dev to read and try take anything valid / serious from it because its beyond redicilous at times especially from some people who should know better.

Some niche classes can do with a bit of love and tweaking but besides that its pretty fair. (I.e Engi/Magus pet mechanic drags it down as its easy to counter) RSH and some others.

/keep up the salt 8-)
From what ive seen all the destro guilds that came over didnt do well and all went back to destro and only occasionally log on order, including you guys.

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#118 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:13 pm

Glorian wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:08 pm You see this as a destro Problem?

I have tried to lead city pugs with WB lead 2,3,4 and 5 in a 24 player Warband. :)
Thats a headache.

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#119 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:13 am

Mordd wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:04 pm
Wam wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm some people should not really talk about realm balance when they are so clueless and biased.

Its mostly a learn to play issue on both sides. When the majority of server struggles to play core easy classes to a high level its not hardly surprising... people clueless about their own build/spec/gear/renown and their own teammates, never mind opposite realm (see things impartially and not with your own bias). This server realm wise is way more balanced than live, individual/organisational wise not so much. Both sides have issues with learn to play, order more so even though they have just as strong class wise if not slightly stronger classes post morale nerf. Just the solo pug mentality and lack of teaming and seeking competition / self improvement as held order back since many many years (order should smash alot more than it does in city and orvr (without the zerg)), its why order's guilds always have trouble with recruitment and you see whiny posts about balance and trying to change the system when system is fine as it can be, just players are the issue. But people looking internally and admiting they could do better, and improve is very unlikely... its just the other side is op and life/war is unfair, change the system so i can get easy BIS rewards instantly without any effort or teaming in a mmo :lol:

Same with destro ragequiters who fight /5 organised pug and leave instead of farming broken solo que engi setups and proclaim to be "organised" and searching for fair fights. Both sides whine, must be a headache for any dev to read and try take anything valid / serious from it because its beyond redicilous at times especially from some people who should know better.

Some niche classes can do with a bit of love and tweaking but besides that its pretty fair. (I.e Engi/Magus pet mechanic drags it down as its easy to counter) RSH and some others.

/keep up the salt 8-)
From what ive seen all the destro guilds that came over didnt do well and all went back to destro and only occasionally log on order, including you guys.
You must be pretty misinformed then :lol:

Just ask people we have fought in cities if we didn't do that well :| even with us running subpar experimental setups in orvr and city too... reason we swap back and forth is order excessively zerging and destro is way out numbered, and if there nothing worthwhile to fight like if FMJ or PNP is not around then destro is going to be lacking numbers and order come out the wood work just to zerg unresisted zones for free loot... then order will log if they meet moderate resistance and have to swap back and forth if not locked to fill the numbers to make it semi decent action / interesting instead of zzzzzzzzzzz complete zerg boring.

But nice bait and assumptions 8-)
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nuadarstark
Posts: 226

Re: Why is Destro the way that it is?

Post#120 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:07 am

Love this "zerg breaking" and "we're on the non-zerging side" talk, especially since half of the time you see folks saying that comfortably rolling around in 300 vs 150 zone pushes, but I digress...

But sure Wam, you're what is propping up both whole realms /s.
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