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What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

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TanithScout
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Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#21 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:14 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:06 pm
I would sooner encourage the MMR system that was developed be applied to every scenario so at least we can preserve that functionality. It's an interesting datapoint even if we don't use it for matchmaking purposes.
Ranked random scenario, separate to but like the battlefront?

This would appeal to a different crowd than the 6v6'ers anyway so theoretically wouldn't take away from that population too much. I enjoy the MMR system and at a base level like seeing my 'high number' (deserve it or not who cares currently) but don't especially enjoy 6v6. I also like to SCANDCHILL when RvR gets stale, this could be a nice medium.
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wargrimnir
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Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#22 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:39 pm

TanithScout wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:14 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:06 pm
I would sooner encourage the MMR system that was developed be applied to every scenario so at least we can preserve that functionality. It's an interesting datapoint even if we don't use it for matchmaking purposes.
Ranked random scenario, separate to but like the battlefront?

This would appeal to a different crowd than the 6v6'ers anyway so theoretically wouldn't take away from that population too much. I enjoy the MMR system and at a base level like seeing my 'high number' (deserve it or not who cares currently) but don't especially enjoy 6v6. I also like to SCANDCHILL when RvR gets stale, this could be a nice medium.
No, just adding the MMR column to the scoreboard. No functional changes to scenarios or matchmaking. Just recording the data and displaying your functional MMR over the history of the character.
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TanithScout
Posts: 54

Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#23 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:59 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:39 pm
TanithScout wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:14 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:06 pm
I would sooner encourage the MMR system that was developed be applied to every scenario so at least we can preserve that functionality. It's an interesting datapoint even if we don't use it for matchmaking purposes.
Ranked random scenario, separate to but like the battlefront?

This would appeal to a different crowd than the 6v6'ers anyway so theoretically wouldn't take away from that population too much. I enjoy the MMR system and at a base level like seeing my 'high number' (deserve it or not who cares currently) but don't especially enjoy 6v6. I also like to SCANDCHILL when RvR gets stale, this could be a nice medium.
No, just adding the MMR column to the scoreboard. No functional changes to scenarios or matchmaking. Just recording the data and displaying your functional MMR over the history of the character.

I see. I'd personally very much like my current MMR to never get wiped...

At the end of the day, persistent stats are why a lot play MMORPG'S and something for all to see is always fun., my immediate concern was something akin to the 'mmr hell/elo hell' I've seen in other games and the toxicity that is involved gettign those lovely digits.... Im sure youre aware of that though. Interesting idea.
Qonrad, the knave of Nagarythe, Ghost of the Garior.

Imperial, Myrmidia's Chosen

Live: Karak Azgal Guild: They Took Our Jobs (Explicit Content) Char: Neomir/HCTBoom/Jinnz

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Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#24 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:26 pm

You can get great gear in this game with minimal effort. Throwing fort. Afking in city.
The one game mode where people have to put in effort has inferior rewards. That doesnt create a healthy player attitude.

TwistedSister77
Posts: 79

Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#25 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:35 pm

I posted this in the other ranked thread:

My experience with ranked, it usually is just a heal fest... hope that the other team has a ranged dps that you can get 1 or 2 kills on. Match over. Very predictable strategy every match.

Would rather see 12 v 12... I know it may queue longer, but maybe not... as it may be more fun and more players would join.

Also, snobbery- teammates would complain if you weren't the right class or have the best gear. I think 12v12 would help with that too.

Omegus
Posts: 476

Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#26 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:47 pm

From my own limited experience and what I've picked up from other players:

1) "Ranked scenario" is actually "ranked 6v6 team deathmatch" or "6v6 arena" and TDM has never been a popular mode in this game. There is a small albeit very vocal crowd who take part in this. The game mode is kills = win, when I believe all other game modes are about controlling objectives first and kills being secondary.

2) There's no unranked version of 6v6 so as a player new to 6v6 you can't even get used to how the mode works, try out different builds, etc, before going over to ranked. Instead you had to jump head first into a new gamemode where everyone expected everyone to be perfect and bring the right meta builds or face a load of toxicity.

3) The early days of MDPS and RDPS being matched against each other killed off a load of interest from RDPS. Anyone trying full kite builds are screwed due to that giant flag in the middle that needs protecting so you end up with the situation like in cities that due to having to stay near to an objective most brawls were (at least at the time) melee focused. The spikes in the map provided a bit of extra distance for RDPS to have to cross.

4) 6v6 exposes players. One point of failure in a team and there's no real come-back. In something like 12v12 there is enough redundancy and extra support to help recover from bad situations and support your team (have you considered 12v12 like almost every other scenario in this game?). Getting exposed leads to hate and toxicity which is a great way of alienating people.

5) Speaking of toxicity, jesus **** christ this mode brought out the worst in people.

6) As a Zealot, the thought of spending 10 minutes of WLs (**** my attempts at kiting I guess :/. Hell, couldn't even try and hide on some of the pillars as a few could be pounced up), ASW (teleports), WH, etc, is not my idea of fun. At all. I'm sure in a perfect 6v6 premade with loads of experience the gameplay might differ but 6v6 pug was just a painful experience for me.

7) No mixed group mode. Either needed a full 6 man (rare) or had to solo. No option for a few friends who were interested to try and play together. For a team that's all about getting people to group up this seemed a bit short sighted.

8) Player population. Scenarios are slow to pop to begin with anyway, adding a super niche game mode on top of this was always going to result in very long queue times.

9) Gear. People feel they need amazing gear to compete as there are no gear brackets. Currently the top gear is from cities, which requires the Invader unlock which is from forts, which requires the Vanquisher unlock which is from ORVR. When the top tier of gear was Invader this wasn't too bad as the top scenario gear (Oppressor) was just one tier below this. Now Oppressor is way below this and spending all your time in ranked scenarios doesn't help you at all to getting towards Sovereign. If Victorious/Triumphant gear also unlocked the ward needed to start earning Sovereign gear then maybe this would be different, but for now focusing on ranked instead of ORVR kills your gear progression in the most competitive mode where gear has a massive impact.

10) People having no **** idea how many tokens are needed to get the new sets. I was going to force myself through ranked to get the sets as I collect armour sets but I can't even reliably work out how much time I need. Rather than taking the sensible option that other games do of awarding different amount of tokens for wins/losses based on your current MMR the devs took the bizarre you of having the gear prices change instead so just when you think you're close, a drop in MMR means suddenly everything is more expensive. For those players who would've played for gear only (which help bump up the player base) having the end goal be a giant moving target is a huge put off.


There are more I could list...
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Omegus
Posts: 476

Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#27 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:23 pm

Some extra feedback based on listening to people attempting solo ranked on discord last night:

The allowable gear gap is too big. The gap used to be Annihilator to Invader, it's now Annihilator to Sovereign. Please consider raising the minimum gear requirements to Rank 40 (not item level) sets, e.g. Conquerer and higher (item level 50+?)
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Tabelrel
Posts: 14

Re: What wrong with ranked scenarios ?

Post#28 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:29 pm

I don't play ranked on my Sorc,or very little, but I play every other game mode and would like to get into it more. I don't need the gear so its not a progression thing just a challenge. It's just a bit stressy and sometimes toxic if you lose. I do like scenario play though and especially the weekend warfronts, be it up against pugs or pre-mades i don't really care.

I do all the right stuff, swap into a more defensive set up, triple pot, detaunt etc but it still involves getting up and personal, which is not really a ranged happy place and there are more rewarding game modes for that. But I think its something i could adjust to over time, however there is that feeling you are going to let the team down just because of your meta, screw up their rankings, which I don't want to do and be the easy reason the team lost so for that reason i won't be a masochist.

I do think it could be made to work if it was structured better and allowed a level of progression that allowed the top meta players do their own thing and allow people who were interested to work their way up but in a way they weren't screwing things up for everyone else i.e. they adjust to it over time, gear up in their own time.

I was thinking of a few ideas.

1. You need leagues, a bit like the premier league. Liverpool away to Man City don't decide that is a great time to mix in the youth academy, but a friendly against Accrington Stanley thats fine.

2. If you have 3 or 4 leagues allow people to sign up and initially self-allocate to what league that feel comfortable in. If you have ever done something like a Spartan race, tough mudder, a marathon then you get to choose what group youwant to start in. Only the very fit nutso types elect for the elite start off group, same principle.

3. To allow people to float up over time introduce a promotion/demotion system so a season doesn't just reset but carries on with some fresh players who have worked there way up and have become used to the play.

Lastly, for ranged play can you add in other Sc's like Black Fire Basin that are a bit more range freindly. Caledor Woods and Maw of Madness are los nightmares and just force range into a style of play that puts them at a disadvantage imao
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