City Winner History?

[Alfa1986]

I personally think part of the reason why it "feels" worse that a 60-40 winrate is because of how some Orderlings are manipulating the luxary possition of how you can pick your enemies.
As long as Tibdum and pugfriends keep taking one for the team and going in early instead of playing it smart and queueing late, to not get against TUP. The smarter Orderlings will spend the sweet lazy time and wait till more manageable known destro premades are in.

You search and see who is in from the top warbands, and depending on who you have in your order comp you try to target aim to go for a fight you find yourself more suited for.
"oh **** we got everyone on alts and have to fill 2parties with puggies, ok lets super late queue"
"oh we have people on mains and events event night, alright lets queue for the top3 destro and go early"
"oh its 5star and we are pussies, let's go late and be greedy"

You just dont see that culture on destro. They build, they queue and they fight.

I am to blame, because Im doing nothing to better the situation, my guild is to blame, and all of order is to blame for our culture. We have grown used to how it is and we are not trying to change it. Now do we have a problem with our orvr guilds not upprioritizing cities? Aboslutely, I personally lost interest for both the campaign and cities after I noticed ill never get my full 24stack in as I cant plan for when they happend. I attend when I can, I help guildies get their crests and hope they dont quit after they get some pieces. But yet till this day still never manged to queue with the same 23other guys for two instances, ever!.

If Order couldnt manipulate the instances like we are, I strongly suspect we would see the 80-20% winrates. The matter of a fact that Fenryls slashfive warband has been the best order-main force to fight, speaks volume for our realm. I even had periods of time in the past where I went and joined that to see the toptier citymeta, learn observe and experience how its done.

Solution for this? Well.. the yoloqueu instance1 puggies still get their crests while having no intention on improving. The guilds and premades are still struggling to even get their people online to put up a fight and will continue latequeueing, and in the middle there are all the decent fights who we dont menion. The close ones, both sides having pugfill, 300 to 150 kill instances where people enjoy themselves no matter who PVE's down the lord in stage3 faster.
The devs can throw buffs towards the overrepresented order-pug classes, stop enemies from searching for guildtags for enemyrealm, or do something to the matchmaking. But the mentality of Order still remains, and will still be the issue.

I 100% agree with you, it seems that the order looks much less organized and competent than destro at the moment. the order needs to create a friendly guild for newbies and noobo-players, led by experienced people(veterans). the order also could be to create a general alliance for small and medium guilds. order have to clean up toxicity and rude communication in general chats, same case of trolling, and provoking veterans relative to newbies. i can offer as a one-time action to promote the weak side, to give the opportunity to create any one 40/50 character on the side of order. this will allow people who have chosen the wrong class to change their choice without wasting both energy and time.

as well as a one-time promotion action, they can hold a special event during the week, in which players of the order side would receive x2 more awards in cities for a victory. In general, on the part of the developers, it is possible to support the order, there would be a desire.

[Akilinus]

Order has always been less organized. Its just that it shows now when numbers are equal and the guilds dont carry pugs in cities.

[Mcdoogan]

Kind of shocked how bad Order does in Cities. I get my ass handed to me in SC all the time because how their team comp is and their team work comes together, but when it comes to Cities most of the time our team stomps them.

Only thing I can see from observing is when it comes to Cities Order just does the same strat every time when it comes to defending or attacking. It never really changes and it's pretty predicable to the point where out WB leader just figures out a counter.

[p00ky]

I really believe that if Order had to organize themselves as quickly as we have to in Destro to "maybe" get inside a City it would be a whole different story. I mean I watch a lot of order streams during cities and its a completly different situation over there.

Destro:
- 15 mins before city pop you start to get the detailed spam in regional chat with all classes, RR lvl and even if aoe spec, etc.
- There is a race to setup 12-18-24 wbs with a perfect 2/2/2 setting, normally even trying to go max 1 WE, max 1 magus etc etc (including all PUGS).
- Sharing discord for voice comms (including most PUGS)
- Must be ready for insta que.


Order:
- Elevator music, all laid back, yaaawn, ahh theres a city you said? We will que around the 15 minute mark no prob.


Ive played with a lot of PUG destros in cities, with proper setupts and even obliged discord chat to join, designated leader, designated main assist, tactics etc etc etc and then we go against PUG order and they have the most random setups. Sometimess nearly full ranged DPS, sometimes 75% healers, sometimes I wonder if they all solo que etc etc. Very rarely are they even slightly set towards a 2/2/2 unless its a top order premade.

There are a lot of complaints here about classes but in all honestly, order has a fantastic Slayer melee train assist combo and order also has a fantastic aoe bomb drop BW assist combo and both of those setups include most classes in a 24 man WB (yes only 1 Engi sorry).


This is not a rant nor flame nor anything like that but "maybe" what order is lacking are PUG LEADERS ready to stand up to the task and actually get things organized over there instead of just joining whatever random group and setup and then getting completly stomped against organized Destro PUGS....

I mean, most of us in Destro would greatly prefer to go vs more organized Order in cities cos sometimes its just daft and down right boring..... And please dont say we are all sov gear cos you would be amazed at the low level gear lots of players in destro pugs are wearing

Anyway, just my own personal thought on the matter.
Cyas out there

[Valarion]

I am to blame, because Im doing nothing to better the situation, my guild is to blame, and all of order is to blame for our culture. We have grown used to how it is and we are not trying to change it. Now do we have a problem with our orvr guilds not upprioritizing cities? Aboslutely, I personally lost interest for both the campaign and cities after I noticed ill never get my full 24stack in as I cant plan for when they happend. I attend when I can, I help guildies get their crests and hope they dont quit after they get some pieces. But yet till this day still never manged to queue with the same 23other guys for two instances, ever!.

If Order couldnt manipulate the instances like we are, I strongly suspect we would see the 80-20% winrates. The matter of a fact that Fenryls slashfive warband has been the best order-main force to fight, speaks volume for our realm. I even had periods of time in the past where I went and joined that to see the toptier citymeta, learn observe and experience how its done.

You are NOT to blame and just keep what you are doing. Your and Fenryl's wbs are the two toughest to beat right now and are pretty much exempt from ANY amount of criticism if you ask me. The other Order alliances and small groups simply need to kick it up a notch.

[Foofmonger]

I am to blame, because Im doing nothing to better the situation, my guild is to blame, and all of order is to blame for our culture. We have grown used to how it is and we are not trying to change it. Now do we have a problem with our orvr guilds not upprioritizing cities? Aboslutely, I personally lost interest for both the campaign and cities after I noticed ill never get my full 24stack in as I cant plan for when they happend. I attend when I can, I help guildies get their crests and hope they dont quit after they get some pieces. But yet till this day still never manged to queue with the same 23other guys for two instances, ever!.

If Order couldnt manipulate the instances like we are, I strongly suspect we would see the 80-20% winrates. The matter of a fact that Fenryls slashfive warband has been the best order-main force to fight, speaks volume for our realm. I even had periods of time in the past where I went and joined that to see the toptier citymeta, learn observe and experience how its done.

You are NOT to blame and just keep what you are doing. Your and Fenryl's wbs are the two toughest to beat right now and are pretty much exempt from ANY amount of criticism if you ask me. The other Order alliances and small groups simply need to kick it up a notch.

Exactly, and again, I don't think the issue here is "Order players are different in the brain" we're all the same community. The reality is that systems impact behavior, and Destro has been forced to organize to even get into the city and order hasn't. The mechanics of the game don't force Order to "get organized" to participate in the city, if they want to participate in a city, all they have to do is log on and walk up to the gate and boom, they're going to get in a city.

What groups like Bombling and Fenyrl show, is that if order does spend the time to organize, they can (and do) win. However, 2 guilds/groups can't train/mentor an entire realm, and people need to take some self direction here and learn from what LBL and Montauge are doing, instead of ignoring it. It's not up to the best guilds to force everyone to be better, people should be trying to get better anyway and should be using those as inspiration.

[storm]

Buffing range SH and nerfing MSH would also help so there is a bit more a balance of range and melee on destro
[/quote]

MSH should get the same treatment as SW, buff range, no nerf to melee.

People have said it over and over, Composition is Everything. I play Order and I can't tell you how many times I see citys with way too many range dps. But all those stats don't reflect the awful decision making of the players. Lets just make the game suited to the popular choice and not what works. Brilliant!

[agemennon675]

I really believe that if Order had to organize themselves as quickly as we have to in Destro to "maybe" get inside a City it would be a whole different story. I mean I watch a lot of order streams during cities and its a completly different situation over there.

Destro:
- 15 mins before city pop you start to get the detailed spam in regional chat with all classes, RR lvl and even if aoe spec, etc.
- There is a race to setup 12-18-24 wbs with a perfect 2/2/2 setting, normally even trying to go max 1 WE, max 1 magus etc etc (including all PUGS).
- Sharing discord for voice comms (including most PUGS)
- Must be ready for insta que.


Order:
- Elevator music, all laid back, yaaawn, ahh theres a city you said? We will que around the 15 minute mark no prob.


Ive played with a lot of PUG destros in cities, with proper setupts and even obliged discord chat to join, designated leader, designated main assist, tactics etc etc etc and then we go against PUG order and they have the most random setups. Sometimess nearly full ranged DPS, sometimes 75% healers, sometimes I wonder if they all solo que etc etc. Very rarely are they even slightly set towards a 2/2/2 unless its a top order premade.

There are a lot of complaints here about classes but in all honestly, order has a fantastic Slayer melee train assist combo and order also has a fantastic aoe bomb drop BW assist combo and both of those setups include most classes in a 24 man WB (yes only 1 Engi sorry).


This is not a rant nor flame nor anything like that but "maybe" what order is lacking are PUG LEADERS ready to stand up to the task and actually get things organized over there instead of just joining whatever random group and setup and then getting completly stomped against organized Destro PUGS....

I mean, most of us in Destro would greatly prefer to go vs more organized Order in cities cos sometimes its just daft and down right boring..... And please dont say we are all sov gear cos you would be amazed at the low level gear lots of players in destro pugs are wearing

Anyway, just my own personal thought on the matter.
Cyas out there

Order pug warbands do the same what you dont understand or dont want to understand is there are alot of un-wanted classes on order that even pug 2-2-2's dont want to take aka (SW,WH,Engi,AM) these players are forced to que solo if they want to get crests that is why you are meeting them in the city

[TreefAM]

If i jumped on order for a week to lead some orvr and maybe even city wbs, I don't think I'd take anything outside of slayer/wl, maybe 1 asw for st burst.

[nuadarstark]

Ive played with a lot of PUG destros in cities, with proper setupts and even obliged discord chat to join, designated leader, designated main assist, tactics etc etc etc and then we go against PUG order and they have the most random setups. Sometimess nearly full ranged DPS, sometimes 75% healers, sometimes I wonder if they all solo que etc etc. Very rarely are they even slightly set towards a 2/2/2 unless its a top order premade.

There are a lot of complaints here about classes but in all honestly, order has a fantastic Slayer melee train assist combo and order also has a fantastic aoe bomb drop BW assist combo and both of those setups include most classes in a 24 man WB (yes only 1 Engi sorry).

Well I think this is what we discussed here to death at this point - if you see an instance with almost no healers, no tanks and bunch of rdps, it's not a slash /5 24man PUG, it's not a guild or alli group. It's either pure solo queue or a 6-12-18man group with bunch of random solos added in.

And that's not because Order wouldn't be able to organize 1 fifteen 2-2-2 24man WBs with either WL/Slayer melee train or BW bomb group. That's cause there is a big over-representation of certain classes that you either don't want in cities at all, or want a very limited number. That means they go for solo Q cause they literally have no other choice, which means they get randomly added to other queued Order groups and bring them down.

While wider inter-realm organisation you'll be able to clear up some issues and probably push the faction to better chance at winning, but it's not gonna fix the class distribution, it's not gonna fix the low amount of viable classes, etc.