City Winner History?

[Foofmonger]

The lopsided wins are Thursdays, Fridays, Sunday and a Monday, averaging 17 instances with a range of 13-22.

The time period from the Morale Change/SW buff until about 29 June is a real golden age for the city instance. 13 destro wins, 10 order wins and 4 ties!

Before and after that it's utterly destro dominated with nearly 60 destro wins and 2 ties. No order wins.

So we figured out two things at least, nothing conclusive but at least a little more info.

1. These lopsided wins are happening at two "semi-specific" times of the day (covered in the last post).
2. These lopsided wins are happening mostly around "end of week, Thursday-Sunday" with some outlier modifiers (the one Monday).

The question now is, why?

We also have the inverse to consider:

1. Why aren't the lopsided cities happening in EU prime time? Why are they in NA prime time or "nobody prime time"? Is this issue compounded by the time of the day and the players of the factions in specific regions? (I.e. NA Destro is far more organized than NA order, but the same is not true for EU?).
2. Why aren't the lopsided cities happening more from Monday-Tuesday-Wednesdays? Why do they happen more when more people have free time (the weekends?). This would indicate a higher population on at these given times I would think.

So it almost seems like the outlier cities are happening for two reasons. 1. High population times in NA primetime. 2. Medium/Low population times in "nobody primetime".

Also, I wonder how this intersects with "failed pushes". We all know that pushes fail, it gets late, and people log off for the night but the campaign doesn't reset. Do we have potential "morale" issues where people are pushing all night, get frustrated and go to sleep, and then Destro just logs on early in the morning and pushes before Order can respond? Is that why we have these outlier cities happening in the NA morning time?

[Alfa1986]

Times weren't being tracked until 8 July but since then there's been 5 lopsided destro wins of 70% or more. These times (in UTC which is EST+4) were:

Noon
Midnight
230p
11p
930a

Tough to see any trend there.

Yea, I'm not seeing much. What days of the week were they? To translate to my own EST time:

8 AM EST (NA Morning, Euro Afternoon)
8PM EST(NA Evening, Euro Late Night)
10:30AM EST (NA Morning, Euro Afternoon)
7 PM EST (NA Evening, Euro Late Night)
530 AM EST (NA pre-morning, Euro late-morning).

The only rough pattern I can see here is that the outlier cities are happening at 2 different times more or less.

Time 1: NA mornings/EU afternoons (meaning low NA pop, probably medium EU pop).
My Guess as to whats happening: Generally in my experience these are cities that NA pushes the evening before, but doesn't end up getting to. NA logs off, EU logs on, and finishes the push in their morning/afternoon.

Time 2: NA prime times/EU late nights (meaning high NA pop, probably medium/low EU pop depending on weekday or not).
My Guess as to whats happening: Generally in my experience these are cities that EU pushes the evening before, then they start to log for sleep. As the population dwindles, the NA prime time players push the city.

One thing to consider with city times is also timezone distribution. The reality is that the vast majority of players on this server live in-between PST (Pacific Standard Time, west coast of US), to about what, UTC+3 for RU? With 24 hours in a day, that means that our playerbase heavily covers times from -8 (PST) to +3 (RU), but we are going to have a lag in activity/city pushes in the offtimes (so basically Asia time, the rest of the time between +3 to -8).

it turns out either morning or evening for Eastern Europe. but in general, this is the standard time for the city, 3-4 hours before eu primetime. the population of the server at this time is quite low, especially in order to fill 30 instances))

[Brickson]

Spoiler:

I found this. Somewhere...

Seeing this post is like seeing someone come out with info on the Clintons. Its been nice knowing you. Too bad about the coming ban. lol

Avoiding the political reference here, but addressing the ideology.

Staff don’t suspend people for compiling data that is seemingly useful. Surprisingly enough, if more people collected data and compiled it in a sufficient way, to present to the team, as opposed to screaming ‘FIX THIS’ whilst pouring salt everywhere - more results tend to follow.

I’m not saying this information will be actioned upon, but it’s a start in regards to the efforts the community are beginning to make in an attempt at driving the development on the server in a more streamlined direction.

Data will always trump empty cries and ‘I’m gonna leave’ threats.

I am not a game developer, so my view might be a bit off. But always thought that statistics would be an important part of balancing and polishing the mechanics in games. Therefore I thought that the statistics of city wins would be one of many things that get used to see if there is a missbalance between order and destro, that needs to be addressed. Your post is giving me the impression that this isn't the case. Which confuses me quite a bit.
Did I just missunderstand you or how does the team determine if there need to be changes made?

[Ramlaen]

it's not about the specific argument but about showing people when their arguments have lost perspective due to internal biases.

Like plugging your ears when you are told after asking why more Order doesn't play tanks and you don't like the answer?

I mean the entire topic of, as you put it, the ability to heal equalize with Chosen makes KOBS overpowered really reflects peoples biases effecting perspective on game balance.

[teiloh]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39333&start=50

The thing is, you only have 4 tactic slots and both classes have more than 4 that are good. DOK can slot something else.

[Kwatchi]

Spoiler:

According to what a Dev has posted on discord just now, they have met internally and decided these results are purely a behavioral issue on Orders part and no changes are being made accordingly.

In other news, there are no longer any Order players on the Dev team and they are down to two coders.

Everything is fine.

This is your second warning for being blatantly disrespectful towards staff. Next time you're taking a break.

[Foofmonger]

it's not about the specific argument but about showing people when their arguments have lost perspective due to internal biases.

Like plugging your ears when you are told after asking why more Order doesn't play tanks and you don't like the answer?

I mean the entire topic of, as you put it, the ability to heal equalize with Chosen makes KOBS overpowered really reflects peoples biases effecting perspective on game balance.

Because I think your personal analysis is incorrect. I'm not being "told anything" I'm reading a lazy, half-assed personal opinion. Sorry but not sorry, your own personal opinion doesn't mean anything to me, and the concept that "KOTBS are bad" in comparison to Chosen, is a joke at best. I generally don't engage with people who are too biased to have any kind of objective perspective, this is why I've already debunked your theory, explained why it's incorrect and lazy, and I'm now going to ignore it because it's wrong.

No, the Order tanks are not bad compared to Destro tanks. Your analysis is bad and that's not the reason they aren't played. Power level does not equate to the classes people play, otherwise why is order already overloaded with useless Engies? To assume that balance = class population is such a simplistic (and incorrect) viewpoint. You literally are trying to make the argument that Order doesn't play SMs because Engineers are more powerful? That's asinine. There are people in this thread having a reasonable, objective discussion, and then there are the salt warriors from order and destro who come out in droves in every single one of these threads. You are one of the many order salt warriors, it's fine, destro has plenty too and I'm happy to argue with any saltybois from either side. That's why when Destro players say "the Chosen heal debuff sucks" I also reply to them explaining why that biased viewpoint is also wrong.

Anyone who seriously thinks that the balance is this game is so out of whack that one side has a massive huge advantage of the other and that the "devs are biased", is delusional at best. You see these delusions all over this forum, for years, from both sides. It's all just nonsense. This game is actually fairly well balanced, there is no bias conspiracy, and while balance needs to be improved upon and changes need to be made, pretending like the sky is falling with biased 0-perspective grass is greener bullshit logic fallacies is a waste of everyone's time.

Also, this is offtopic for this discussion at this point.

[Valarion]

These stats mean literally nothing without knowing what classes are entering these instances and what the gear disparity is. It could simply be explained by a wb full of Cats and Legolas expecting to be carried just like it is in rvr. All this is telling me we need MORE stats, thats literally it.

That and yes Foofmonger needs a nerf..

[Manatikik]

Pre-morale nerf destro had a huge advantage. Post morale nerf Order definitely has the advantage.

Win rates simply correlate to the lack of organized players on order and less meta classes that a lot of people want to play. Any other take is just plain ignorance.

[Foofmonger]

Times weren't being tracked until 8 July but since then there's been 5 lopsided destro wins of 70% or more. These times (in UTC which is EST+4) were:

Noon
Midnight
230p
11p
930a

Tough to see any trend there.

Yea, I'm not seeing much. What days of the week were they? To translate to my own EST time:

8 AM EST (NA Morning, Euro Afternoon)
8PM EST(NA Evening, Euro Late Night)
10:30AM EST (NA Morning, Euro Afternoon)
7 PM EST (NA Evening, Euro Late Night)
530 AM EST (NA pre-morning, Euro late-morning).

The only rough pattern I can see here is that the outlier cities are happening at 2 different times more or less.

Time 1: NA mornings/EU afternoons (meaning low NA pop, probably medium EU pop).
My Guess as to whats happening: Generally in my experience these are cities that NA pushes the evening before, but doesn't end up getting to. NA logs off, EU logs on, and finishes the push in their morning/afternoon.

Time 2: NA prime times/EU late nights (meaning high NA pop, probably medium/low EU pop depending on weekday or not).
My Guess as to whats happening: Generally in my experience these are cities that EU pushes the evening before, then they start to log for sleep. As the population dwindles, the NA prime time players push the city.

One thing to consider with city times is also timezone distribution. The reality is that the vast majority of players on this server live in-between PST (Pacific Standard Time, west coast of US), to about what, UTC+3 for RU? With 24 hours in a day, that means that our playerbase heavily covers times from -8 (PST) to +3 (RU), but we are going to have a lag in activity/city pushes in the offtimes (so basically Asia time, the rest of the time between +3 to -8).

it turns out either morning or evening for Eastern Europe. but in general, this is the standard time for the city, 3-4 hours before eu primetime. the population of the server at this time is quite low, especially in order to fill 30 instances))

Yea it seemes to be 3-4 hours before EU primetime, or roughly 3-4 hours after EU primetime is where we're getting these hugely biased cities for destro. Not sure what we can infer from that, but it's noteworthy I think.