Next SW patch

[anarchypark]

Skirmish isnt for kiting anymore... Then why did sw get a tactic that increases movement speed by 20%?
I dont see how that fits into the rework. If skirm wasnt for kiting anymore but for aoe there should not have been such a long cd on lileaths arrow imo.

for various build.
scout+skirmish or skirmish+scout.
It works really well in scout+skirmish.
been trying kite in skirmish+scout with 20% spd.

it's possible but my ping is not built for 40ft kite.
test after test, it felt like skirmish is for 40ft range non-stop aoe. with guard+heal. doing so no time to kite.

for minmaxers, barrage+no spite and nuke at 20-40ft is answer i think.
anyone tested it in premade bomb?

one of skirmish aoe rotation is barrage->LA->spiral and repeat. LA 5s CD is fit for that. but yea, it's not that good.
hope they remove LA 5s cd.

[ceramicartist]

Skirmish isnt for kiting anymore... Then why did sw get a tactic that increases movement speed by 20%?
I dont see how that fits into the rework. If skirm wasnt for kiting anymore but for aoe there should not have been such a long cd on lileaths arrow imo.

Tactic required for movement speed is in the scout tree. No SW is going to waste a tactic slot for that...They are trying to make skirmish more AoE, but they gimped Lileaths Arrow which was already hardly used before this nerf.

Not to mention the huge problems with BHA making it absolute trash.
Not to mention moving Flame Arrow to Skirmisher but still keeping the tactic for extra damage tied to Scout Tree and a Scout Ability Festering Arrow.
Not to mention the giant AP drain from Glass Arrow for a laughable amount of damage increase. (GA used to actually be decent)
Not to mention they moved Eye Shot to Scout tree and now you can't cast it on the move (Biggest nerf to Skirmish SW from this patch imo)

[saupreusse]

Well yeah, its in the scout tree but i believe the idea behind it was to give rsw in general higher kiting ability... It would be a very nice tactic if it wasnt for the very short range which makes kiting way too hard. Would be cool if could have wargrimnir write a sentence to all the changes that were made and explain the ideas he had in mind. Its hard for me to make any suggestions when i dont know the direction we are going. If skirm was meant to kite i believe it didnt quite hit the mark. If it was meant for aoe it didnt quite hit the mark. For me atm it is a hybrid between aoe dmg and a very short range to make kiting extremely hard. Scout has soe extreme backload burst now if you get all your dots stacked, but then the hdb range is really low so theres that. Imo rsw doesnt work without 100ft range on all its skills and thats probably the only real suggestion i can give right now.

[tefnaht]

Not to mention moving Flame Arrow to Skirmisher but still keeping the tactic for extra damage tied to Scout Tree and a Scout Ability Festering Arrow.

Enchanted Arrow - don't work for Flame Arrow, tested it on same monster in PvE with Festering Arrow on\off Enchanted Arrow. Just need free time

@anarchypark

Smoldering Arrow - dmg grow for normal fights is nothing and SW have more valuable tactics then pump up Flame Arrow, found place for Smoldering Arrow only in large zone fights with pug - spam Broadhead Arrow and Flame Arrow - leaching random kills, rp and zone contribution. Kinda fun, but not healthy way.

Barrage - need VoN, need skirmish in melee range(not the best idea even with guard and 2 healers) and it's just 2 hits with overall 30sec cd, with SM WW - it's a something, but still mara crushing blows more effective - no conditions, good chance to proc, always work from all AoE abilities, but price is tactic slot

About SM WW - best SW friend, Barrage, Festering Arrow, Rapid Fire, Brutal Assault, Lileath's Arrow so many options, but best is Brutal Assault + Sinister Strike + VoN (feels like WH\WE Feinted Position + Torment), Enchanted Arrow + Festering Arrow spam - feel self mage in a few seconds, Rapid Fire - machine gun(VoN + subjugator procs + Glass Arrow + Hunter's Fevor + ap pots + ap rune + ap aura). Wet dreams... In reality any squig ruin this synergy burst, SM population not so huge and they have self problems with selecting ability to perfect balance drop.

Main SW problem for me - Hunter's Fevor, Glass Arrow, Steady Aim use gcd. And want remove positional condition on Flanking Shot form VoN, like Brutal Assault, it will be awesome.

Overall class problem - to do sustained damage need complete more conditions and it's for reach average numbers, BW\Slayer\Sorc\Choppa\WL\Mara do it better and easier and that's what average player looking for. But SW is on utility role - boost party crit, heal debuff (even aSW Crosscut, Wrist Slash do more for party WL, always says thank you for Leading Shots(for tanks\healers in party it's a hard time - be in time in right place)). Question is why "meta" dd can be so effective and so easily at the same time. BW\Slayer\Sorc\Choppa have build-in huge damage boost with some restrictions to work around it and have full personal control on it, just imagine if heal/detaunt drop rage points for Slayer\Choppa and every not just self magic spells can trigger damage but and magic damage that received by BW\Sorc triggers too.

VoN - 10 seconds buff(imagine half effectiveness from rage\combustion, because some abilities have additional bonuses with VoN) that easy to lose by enemy control(knok\disarm\taunt\detaunt) same as engi problem(more effectiveness, but more restrictions from enemy and dead turrets).
Steady Aim - +25% crit dmg with +1 sec to build up on all damage skills (100% crit - +12%~16% dmg, 50% crit - +6%~8% dmg, 25% crit - +3%~4% dmg) is kinda joke bonus, too low - punishment too high.
Glass Arrow - good idea drain ap and gain additional damsge, turn on - burst - turn off, but need more accurate work with numbers, now it's just convert raw damage to wave damage, that not an explosion in 5 seconds, just +~15% damage for ±6 abilities and wait about 20 sec to next try, need gcd to turn on and if decided to use it - hard to find situation to turn it off(Steady Aim at least have synergy with Focused Mind). As rSW - see in party KotBS with To Glory/RP with Master Rune of Fury turn it on and live with it, or mix Replanishing Strikes + Hunter's Fevor.

Lots ways to slightly increase damage output, can't collect it all at the same time, lots conditions to play around. And never reach the heaven as a pure DD. But have some good utility(in some moments unique), mobility and no expectation from others

[adapter]

Stop looking at whats on paper and go actually play a SW. This last patch was a huge nerf. I really hope I don't have to explain why.

No thanks, elves have no style and all the gear looks the same. I play Ranged Squig Herder and will wait 3 more years for the rework on it.

[Rekkerr]

Maybe you should give proper feedback and do some proposals.

Many of us have tried. We’ve received no response from the devs or any positive change.

I think this kind of frustration is what naturally happens when the development process asks for feedback, doesn’t acknowledge it, doesn’t explain or give any insight to changes, and continues to act counter to feedback.

We've received feedback that has been good, bad, overpowered, underpowered, ruined the class, delete the class, devs are stupid/incompetent/spiteful etc. Clearly people don't know what to think, and the angery bois are always going to be the loudest. So when we see there's good feedback mixed in with the bad, it's a sign there might be some significant exaggeration on how dead a class is. Personally I can't stand feedback that is wildly over the top, so I mostly roll my eyes and scroll on past. Bait threads like this one are prime to get locked and the poster warned, but hey when you only have one post on the forums I guess you're not losing much to get your "feedback" out there.

Some of you have developed a reputation for being incessant trolls, so even if you might have some hint of a constructive thought, I'm not remotely interested. There's plenty of other people out there who can hold a conversation without devolving to hyperbolic fallacy and troll baiting.

Whats funny is the class wasnt that great anyway but at least skirm was fun, now it falls into the WH bucket of never play and warn new plays to roll different classes.

[jaxamillian]

I do miss the old skirmish, it wasnt powerful, but it was a ton of fun for sure.

[bossabe]

We've received feedback that has been good, bad, overpowered, underpowered, ruined the class, delete the class, devs are stupid/incompetent/spiteful etc. Clearly people don't know what to think, and the angery bois are always going to be the loudest. So when we see there's good feedback mixed in with the bad, it's a sign there might be some significant exaggeration on how dead a class is. Personally I can't stand feedback that is wildly over the top, so I mostly roll my eyes and scroll on past. Bait threads like this one are prime to get locked and the poster warned, but hey when you only have one post on the forums I guess you're not losing much to get your "feedback" out there.

Some of you have developed a reputation for being incessant trolls, so even if you might have some hint of a constructive thought, I'm not remotely interested. There's plenty of other people out there who can hold a conversation without devolving to hyperbolic fallacy and troll baiting.

Thanks for the reply.

Can we have some kind of roadmap or statement on what the intentions of the changes are so that we can tailor our expectations and give more focused feedback?

I understand that iterative changes on live software is a difficult process to track when you have hundreds or thousands of end users who all have different goals, levels of commitment, and diversity of stake in the outcome of the changes. I work as a consultant in my professional life providing support for exactly these kinds of business processes.

As I said in a previous post, help us help you. Give us some structure on providing feedback, your goals in this implementation, and what your expectations as developers are.

Also, as an aside, your communications are very...terse. Accusing players of being trolls and being hyperbolic doesn’t really help facilitate open lines of communication. My advice would be to ignore the trolls and overreactors, and respond to people who are earnestly trying to help.

I know this is a labor of love and not a commercial product, but facilitating healthy, actionable feedback is key to making this thing we all love and find value in actually work and grow.

Let’s work together.

We have enough help. People want what they want, and everyone wants a say on balance. At the end of the day these things are planned out internally using concepts and ideas drawn from the community or hashed out internally. This isn't a community project, you're the result of the project development going as well as it has. This is very much a closed project with a pretty tight lid on letting people join the team. We're not looking for, or interested in, professional consultants trying to bridge a gap that we intentionally created.

correct me if i am wrong , but are you saying that this project is just something put in place by a small group of persons who want to do things the way they want to do it and us , the players have to just accept it ? like we cannot bring our piece ?.. Because i remember a youtuber , not too long ago advertising this game and inviting people to join . So , i am a lil bit confused

[bossabe]

Spoiler:

Did YOU read my last post? I said we use community feedback as one base for balance changes but discussions about it are held internally. The community isn't useless, we're just not actively engaging with them. Maybe look around at the community shitposting that's rampant and understand why.

Thats why theres so much shitposting going on. By not actively engaging with the community it leaves us in the dark with whats going on. People are angry over the constant nerfs to Order and not receiving any clarity or hearing anything about it besides "its overperforming" doesn't help. Tons of skills are overperforming on destro but are left untouched.

As a developer you just can't spread out information about things that "in progress", all can be changed few times in a row "inside the team". In other way it's just enlarge reaction of forum community to every developer step. And simple reason - to active work with community need more resources and, as wargrimnir said, it's not a community driven project, even not commercial project - save and focus limited resources is an only way to do anything complete.

geez , does some of you own a diploma ?
The dood just asked for an insight , we dont wanna know exactly what are they working on in the moment , we want to know the direction , because , i am sorry , but i have been following this project since day 1 , and i am still lost about what is it they want to achieve , they are always talking about how this is a "private" project on which they "dont need our input"... So here is my question to the RoR ADMINISTRATION , ARE YOU GUYS JUST SHOWING OFF YOUR PROGRAMMING SKILLS IN VIDEO GAME SO YOU CAN GET A JOB AT A BIGGER COMPANY OR WHAT ? LIKE WHAT THE F ARE WE DOING HERE ?
and AT LEAST , GIVE US A ROAD MAP (google it if you dont know "exactly" what it means in VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY) p.s. We not even asking for dates , just where the heck is the ship going ?

[adapter]

If skirm wasnt for kiting anymore but for aoe there should not have been such a long cd on lileaths arrow imo.

The cooldown on Lileath's Arrow makes no sense at all.