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let's talk about city ability faction bias

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hammerhead
Posts: 144

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#11 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:55 am

kirraha wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:18 am

Give me magus a healkeg!

I want my sh to have range kd

I want my choppa to have shatter limbs

I wany my bg to have axe slam

I want so much! Gimme now!!!
(This is ironypost)
if you don’t have a normal healer with a book or a staff, you are dead before you take it.

A little patience. All will be given soon.

I want your choppa to have a GТDС 25(15!) ft radius.

I change to spamable AOE

and i'm serious
(\|)o0(|/)

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Nekkma
Posts: 501

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#12 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:06 am

Order used to lose because morales. Now they apparently lose because goblins run away (not really that good for city imo) and magus pull.

And not even once have any of the groups I have been in for cities based the composition and tactic on gtdc cd.

If you ask me Op should play instead of "talk about city abilities", i.e. whining.
Nekkma / Hjortron
Zatakk
Smultron

xarax
Posts: 156

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#13 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:14 am

EggYolkeo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 am
Spoiler:
Well, I'm currently working on a layout/spreadsheet that details all of the viable Tactics/Abilities/Masteries used by each class (on both factions) in a warband setting (mainly using city warbands as an example).

I still have a lot more work to do, but I really wanted to create a layout of information for everyone to clearly view, especially to help out the devs in balancing out every class over time (which has always been a struggle to achieve in competitive multiplayer games in general). This will show anything that is unique to a specific class/faction, the amount of viable tactics/abilities available to each class, the amount of utility a class has compared to their mirror class, or class specific tactics/abilities that heavily outweigh the mirror class' tactics/abilities. (So that, instead of calling out for things to be buffed/nerfed/changed without any real evidence, there's no bias related to changes of any kind).

Still work in progress, so if any tactic/ability/mastery is incorrect, please mention it.. There's more than likely tactics/abilities that I have missed for specific builds.. These are mainly viable tactics/abilities/masteries you would typically use in a city warband build (or look viable via the tactic/ability description).

Here's what I've worked on so far:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Marauder>

Tactics - Brute (160 str) /// Feeding on Fear (20% crit for 5secs after crit) /// Piercing Bite (50% armor pen with abilities requiring mutation) /// Flanking (15%dmg from sides/rear)

Tactics via Mastery - Hulking Brute (increased tough/ini by 100) /// Growing Instability (50% bonus crit dmg) /// Crushing Blows (all hits have 25% chance to remove 225 morale) /// Insane Whispers (mouth of tzeentch causes 50% increased ability build up time for 5secs)

Core Abilities - Gift of Monstrosity (25% to heal 1032 over 5secs, recieve reduced armor pen, passive) /// Flail (instant, 133dmg + 108dmg with mutation, 30ap) /// Death Grip (4sec disarm on parry, 20ap, 5cd) /// Demolition (PB 50% armor pen, instant, 180degree aoe, 35ap, 138dmg, 25ft) /// Mouth of Tzeentch (PB 50% armor pen, instant, 180degree aoe interupt, 133dmg, 30ap, 40ft, 10cd) /// Ferocious Assault (instant, 125 str/tough self buff for 20secs, 60cd) /// Mutated Energy (100ft ranged 3sec knockdown on disrupt, 25ap, 241dmg, 10cd) /// Pulverize (PB 50% armor pen, reduce parry/block by 10% for 20secs, 214dmg, 35ap, 20cd)

Mastery Abilities - Wrecking Ball (PB 50% armor pen, 3sec 180d channeled aoe, 6hits, 132dmg, 30ft, 30ap/s, 13cd) /// Concussive Jolt (instant 180degree aoe 2sec knockdown, 113dmg, 30ap, 25ft, 20cd) /// Wave of Mutilation (instant 360degree aoe, reduced WS/ini by 75/50, 45ap, 553dmg over 21sec, 30ft, 20cd) /// Mutated Aggressor (instant, 25% increased dmg selfbuff for 10secs, 60cd)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<White Lion>

Tactics - Brute (160 str) /// Loner (25% increased dmg, no cd on pounce, no pet) /// Flanking (15%dmg from sides/rear) /// Tearing Blade (slashing blade and sundering chop cause 258dmg over 3secs)

Tactics via Mastery - Hack and Slash (whirling axe and slashing blade 50% armor pen, slashing blade and hack 50% reduced ap cost)

Core Abilities - Trained to Threaten (5% crit selfbuff, passive) /// Hack (H&S 50% reduced ap cost, instant, 134dmg, 30ap/15ap) /// Slashing Blade (H&S 50% armor pen + 50% reduced ap cost, instant, 180degree aoe, 134dmg, 35ap/17.5ap, 25ft)

Mastery Abilities - Whirling Axe (H&S 50% armor pen, 3sec 360degree channeled aoe, 6hits, 131dmg, 30ft, 35ap/s, 13cd) /// Force Opportunity (instant, undefendable, reduce armor by 1000 for 10secs, 184dmg, 25ap, 10cd) /// Pounce (instant, gapcloser, increased movespeed by 35% for 3 secs cancelled by ability use, 159dmg, 30ap, 65ft, 10cd/no cd) /// Primal Fury (instant, 25% increased dmg selfbuff for 10secs, only from sides/rear, 60cd) /// Echoing Roar (instant, 360degree aoe interupt, 390 spirit dmg over 15secs, 35ap, 15ft, 10cd)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Squig Herder>

Tactics - Masterful Aim (160 bs) /// Pick On Yer Own Size (120 str/bs/ws, 120 reduced tough) /// Territorial Aggression (armor increased by amount gained from items, increased melee dmg by 25%, reduced ranged dmg, no cd on squig leap) /// Pierce Defences (if enemy blocks/dodges/parries, their block/dodge/parry reduced by 15% for 10secs) /// Strength in Numbas (if groupmate hits an enemy, 25% chance to regain 100 morale over 3secs) /// RUN AWAY! (25% when you are hit to increase movespeed by 30% for 5secs) /// Whazat Behind You?! (25% when you are hit to detaunt, enemy damage to 75% for 5secs)

Tactics via Mastery - Sneaky Git (sneaky strike increases chance to defend by 15%) /// Sneaky Stabbin (15% increased dmg when under 45ft away from target) /// 'Ere, Squiggy! (25% chance that 50% of dmg taken is dealt to pet)

Core Abilities - Horned Squig (armor is increased by armor gained from items) /// Sticky Squigz (360degree aoe snare, reduce movespeed by 40% for 10secs, self knockback, no ap, 30ft, 30cd) /// KABOOM! (instant, explode squig armor to knockback enemies, 10ft aoe, 304dmg, 35ap, no cd) /// Bounce (instant, 3sec knockdown, 169dmg, 30ap, 20cd) /// Really Bad Gas! (1sec cast aoe, 210 corp dmg every 2secs for 6 secs, 35ap, 20cd) /// Sneaky Strike (instant, increases armor by large amount for 15secs, 294dmg, 35ap, 10cd) /// Drop That!! (instant, pet disarms target for 4secs, 20ap, 20cd) /// Big Bouncin! (360degree 3sec channeled aoe, repeatedly deal 119dmg, 20ap/s, 8cd) /// Don't Hit Me! (instant, interupt, 169dmg, 30ap, 10cd)

Mastery Abilities - Outta My Way! (instant, channeled, increase movespeed by 75% for 10secs, move through enemies, 20ap/s, 55cd) /// Tastes Like Stuntie (instant, 5sec channeled selfheal, 179 per hit, dmg transfered to healing, 15ap/s, 25cd) /// Indigestion (instant, 180degree aoe, increases cooldowns by 1sec for each enemy hit to a max of 5secs, lasts for 10secs, 85 corp dmg, 20ap, 40ft, 20cd) /// Squig Leap (instant, gapcloser, 144dmg, 30ap, 65ft, 10cd/no cd)
that format is just not readable
Zeal80 - Dok82 - Sham74
BO81 - BG80 - WE75

and tooooo many alts

User avatar
Goermsi
Posts: 70

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#14 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:22 am

**** on 30% runspeed proc for gobos. We dont live long enough by all the dmg here.
Give us the dwarf armor tactic and lets see.
Schweinejungs (Drakenwald)
...Kill & Run, cause we can...

User avatar
Waaghaa
Posts: 190

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#15 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:41 am

You make it actually sound that in city sieging, Destro sports only guild wbs, I mean Rift- Magus ?

Try playing a Magus and join an open WB with Rift-specc and see how that goes for ya.
Spoiler:
Image

Esmeralda
Posts: 18

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#16 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:46 am

Please leave gobbos alone with their tactic, your desire to equalize all skills and tactics sucks the fun out of the game. GTDC is busted tho, lowers your fps to 1 while you are flying and you can be pulled twice which is abused by some people. But on the other hand healing on Destro side is twice as hard as healing on Order side idk whats up with this just personal observation.

EggYolkeo
Posts: 5

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#17 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:09 pm

xarax wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:14 am
EggYolkeo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 am
Spoiler:
Well, I'm currently working on a layout/spreadsheet that details all of the viable Tactics/Abilities/Masteries used by each class (on both factions) in a warband setting (mainly using city warbands as an example).

I still have a lot more work to do, but I really wanted to create a layout of information for everyone to clearly view, especially to help out the devs in balancing out every class over time (which has always been a struggle to achieve in competitive multiplayer games in general). This will show anything that is unique to a specific class/faction, the amount of viable tactics/abilities available to each class, the amount of utility a class has compared to their mirror class, or class specific tactics/abilities that heavily outweigh the mirror class' tactics/abilities. (So that, instead of calling out for things to be buffed/nerfed/changed without any real evidence, there's no bias related to changes of any kind).

Still work in progress, so if any tactic/ability/mastery is incorrect, please mention it.. There's more than likely tactics/abilities that I have missed for specific builds.. These are mainly viable tactics/abilities/masteries you would typically use in a city warband build (or look viable via the tactic/ability description).

Here's what I've worked on so far:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Marauder>

Tactics - Brute (160 str) /// Feeding on Fear (20% crit for 5secs after crit) /// Piercing Bite (50% armor pen with abilities requiring mutation) /// Flanking (15%dmg from sides/rear)

Tactics via Mastery - Hulking Brute (increased tough/ini by 100) /// Growing Instability (50% bonus crit dmg) /// Crushing Blows (all hits have 25% chance to remove 225 morale) /// Insane Whispers (mouth of tzeentch causes 50% increased ability build up time for 5secs)

Core Abilities - Gift of Monstrosity (25% to heal 1032 over 5secs, recieve reduced armor pen, passive) /// Flail (instant, 133dmg + 108dmg with mutation, 30ap) /// Death Grip (4sec disarm on parry, 20ap, 5cd) /// Demolition (PB 50% armor pen, instant, 180degree aoe, 35ap, 138dmg, 25ft) /// Mouth of Tzeentch (PB 50% armor pen, instant, 180degree aoe interupt, 133dmg, 30ap, 40ft, 10cd) /// Ferocious Assault (instant, 125 str/tough self buff for 20secs, 60cd) /// Mutated Energy (100ft ranged 3sec knockdown on disrupt, 25ap, 241dmg, 10cd) /// Pulverize (PB 50% armor pen, reduce parry/block by 10% for 20secs, 214dmg, 35ap, 20cd)

Mastery Abilities - Wrecking Ball (PB 50% armor pen, 3sec 180d channeled aoe, 6hits, 132dmg, 30ft, 30ap/s, 13cd) /// Concussive Jolt (instant 180degree aoe 2sec knockdown, 113dmg, 30ap, 25ft, 20cd) /// Wave of Mutilation (instant 360degree aoe, reduced WS/ini by 75/50, 45ap, 553dmg over 21sec, 30ft, 20cd) /// Mutated Aggressor (instant, 25% increased dmg selfbuff for 10secs, 60cd)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<White Lion>

Tactics - Brute (160 str) /// Loner (25% increased dmg, no cd on pounce, no pet) /// Flanking (15%dmg from sides/rear) /// Tearing Blade (slashing blade and sundering chop cause 258dmg over 3secs)

Tactics via Mastery - Hack and Slash (whirling axe and slashing blade 50% armor pen, slashing blade and hack 50% reduced ap cost)

Core Abilities - Trained to Threaten (5% crit selfbuff, passive) /// Hack (H&S 50% reduced ap cost, instant, 134dmg, 30ap/15ap) /// Slashing Blade (H&S 50% armor pen + 50% reduced ap cost, instant, 180degree aoe, 134dmg, 35ap/17.5ap, 25ft)

Mastery Abilities - Whirling Axe (H&S 50% armor pen, 3sec 360degree channeled aoe, 6hits, 131dmg, 30ft, 35ap/s, 13cd) /// Force Opportunity (instant, undefendable, reduce armor by 1000 for 10secs, 184dmg, 25ap, 10cd) /// Pounce (instant, gapcloser, increased movespeed by 35% for 3 secs cancelled by ability use, 159dmg, 30ap, 65ft, 10cd/no cd) /// Primal Fury (instant, 25% increased dmg selfbuff for 10secs, only from sides/rear, 60cd) /// Echoing Roar (instant, 360degree aoe interupt, 390 spirit dmg over 15secs, 35ap, 15ft, 10cd)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Squig Herder>

Tactics - Masterful Aim (160 bs) /// Pick On Yer Own Size (120 str/bs/ws, 120 reduced tough) /// Territorial Aggression (armor increased by amount gained from items, increased melee dmg by 25%, reduced ranged dmg, no cd on squig leap) /// Pierce Defences (if enemy blocks/dodges/parries, their block/dodge/parry reduced by 15% for 10secs) /// Strength in Numbas (if groupmate hits an enemy, 25% chance to regain 100 morale over 3secs) /// RUN AWAY! (25% when you are hit to increase movespeed by 30% for 5secs) /// Whazat Behind You?! (25% when you are hit to detaunt, enemy damage to 75% for 5secs)

Tactics via Mastery - Sneaky Git (sneaky strike increases chance to defend by 15%) /// Sneaky Stabbin (15% increased dmg when under 45ft away from target) /// 'Ere, Squiggy! (25% chance that 50% of dmg taken is dealt to pet)

Core Abilities - Horned Squig (armor is increased by armor gained from items) /// Sticky Squigz (360degree aoe snare, reduce movespeed by 40% for 10secs, self knockback, no ap, 30ft, 30cd) /// KABOOM! (instant, explode squig armor to knockback enemies, 10ft aoe, 304dmg, 35ap, no cd) /// Bounce (instant, 3sec knockdown, 169dmg, 30ap, 20cd) /// Really Bad Gas! (1sec cast aoe, 210 corp dmg every 2secs for 6 secs, 35ap, 20cd) /// Sneaky Strike (instant, increases armor by large amount for 15secs, 294dmg, 35ap, 10cd) /// Drop That!! (instant, pet disarms target for 4secs, 20ap, 20cd) /// Big Bouncin! (360degree 3sec channeled aoe, repeatedly deal 119dmg, 20ap/s, 8cd) /// Don't Hit Me! (instant, interupt, 169dmg, 30ap, 10cd)

Mastery Abilities - Outta My Way! (instant, channeled, increase movespeed by 75% for 10secs, move through enemies, 20ap/s, 55cd) /// Tastes Like Stuntie (instant, 5sec channeled selfheal, 179 per hit, dmg transfered to healing, 15ap/s, 25cd) /// Indigestion (instant, 180degree aoe, increases cooldowns by 1sec for each enemy hit to a max of 5secs, lasts for 10secs, 85 corp dmg, 20ap, 40ft, 20cd) /// Squig Leap (instant, gapcloser, 144dmg, 30ap, 65ft, 10cd/no cd)
that format is just not readable
Well, of course.. It's literally just notes in a notepad document. Like I said, work in progress. You're more than welcome to do a better job.

User avatar
jbrutal
Posts: 76

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#18 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:12 pm

xarax wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:32 am
if i remember correctly magus pull is also 1sec casttime like engi and you losing fights because gits run "Run away"??
nope engie is a 1secs cast time AND a 1 sec delay after cast not sure why or how this even benefits a pull

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TreefAM
Posts: 274

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#19 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:20 pm

People still think that a destro melee ball is anything close to the fighting power of a slayerball, pugs will pug I guess.

User avatar
Detangler
Posts: 400

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#20 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:33 pm

OP is making a classic case for what we in the U.S. call "cherry picking."
Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/82 Chosen tankbot/murdermachine
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot/talisman factory
Detanglerr - 40/xx Witch Elf boredom killer
Deetsquiggy - 40/x Squig butcherbot
Tanglers - baby Swordmaster

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