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Theguyoftomorrow
Posts: 8

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#61 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:06 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:59 pm
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

Anyone who dies in 2-3 seconds is doing something wrong and should look to find out what their issue is. Melee SW is not burst as you say, they hit a few moves to do their damage. The way burst is used is via pets and other things which the mSH / WL do best.

The fact you listed mSH as sustain damage is funny. mSH has the same weakness as the WL. Just the WL has some tactics which help their dumb pet and stances which buff them and makes them live longer. But, if you don't play both classes or sides you will never know. Only WL's killing people are fast are BiS WL's kill mostly people in bad spots or under geared. Or killing the class their counter.
MSH doesn't nearly have the same burst as WL, they have the sustain you can test it out if you want by dueling the classes.
How's Melee SWS aren't bursty as I say? They aren't popular but trust me they are very bursty, things can be adjusted and fix WH class, there you go. Why is WL a bursty teleporter? it shouldn't be one. In that way you have WH & ASw that can counter shaman, if that's what you are so worried about, but WLS? they shouldn't be the bursty teleporters they're now, if needed ASWS can be adjusted as well.
In case of a WH fix, WE should get fixed whatever is needed as well, and maybe mara buff, I say give mara a burst spec with teleport like ASW. and in this way we reach a balance among the classes sort of at least.

P.S.
The only reason why you claim burst of ASW isn't good enough is because WL is an over tuned class, it takes the place of both asw+wh, why would one open wh/asw, when you can just play WL, stealth or not you do the burst your class isn't supposed to do, and you're damn better at it than the designed classes for it.

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raistomen
Posts: 92

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#62 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:34 pm

komar9220 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:53 am
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:42 am
komar9220 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:54 am


Who do you think is the best am?
i kill him :D
What difference does it make ? Any AM that will play correctly with the right amount of gear to compete ofc, you won't have any chance of defeating him, the only AMS you defeat the ones that make the mistakes.
I see you're mixing 3 sets, meaning you use less int renown, and put more for defensive DD/FS on the other hand you get disrupted more often, in any case a proper AM will beat you.
just for the sake of the argument in my opinion Telen is the best AM, but again any AM can beat you as long as the specific AM plays correctly.
New vid coming soon, and i kill telen with full hp
Image
is that the healing spec + int gear settup?

raistomen
Posts: 92

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#63 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:41 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:59 pm
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

Anyone who dies in 2-3 seconds is doing something wrong and should look to find out what their issue is. Melee SW is not burst as you say, they hit a few moves to do their damage. The way burst is used is via pets and other things which the mSH / WL do best.

The fact you listed mSH as sustain damage is funny. mSH has the same weakness as the WL. Just the WL has some tactics which help their dumb pet and stances which buff them and makes them live longer. But, if you don't play both classes or sides you will never know. Only WL's killing people are fast are BiS WL's kill mostly people in bad spots or under geared. Or killing the class their counter.


there is only one class that i've seen that can constantly kill me during KD or in a burst on order or destro

that is WL.

Even some scrub WL in partial invaders is scarier than Bombling. When it gets to be that redic its time to stop and think "maybe this is a bit to much." mSH are good, but i know im not gona just die, same for every other class on order or destro. Like Slayers, you think "okay I can counter this, I can use my actions to mitigate this". A geared WL gets on you unless you gimp yourself and just be a walking hp sponge, he is gona kill you.

Imagine if I faced two bomblings, can still cleanse, back off , los etc. If I face a slayer/chopper I can use geometry and **** , kite , whatever. Doesn't matter for WL. If I get KD im prob gona die in 2-3 GCD. Point is there is no other class that makes it so that nothing you do matters. You just accept death.

Theguyoftomorrow
Posts: 8

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#64 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:06 pm

raistomen wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:41 pm
sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:59 pm
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

Anyone who dies in 2-3 seconds is doing something wrong and should look to find out what their issue is. Melee SW is not burst as you say, they hit a few moves to do their damage. The way burst is used is via pets and other things which the mSH / WL do best.

The fact you listed mSH as sustain damage is funny. mSH has the same weakness as the WL. Just the WL has some tactics which help their dumb pet and stances which buff them and makes them live longer. But, if you don't play both classes or sides you will never know. Only WL's killing people are fast are BiS WL's kill mostly people in bad spots or under geared. Or killing the class their counter.


there is only one class that i've seen that can constantly kill me during KD or in a burst on order or destro

that is WL.

Even some scrub WL in partial invaders is scarier than Bombling. When it gets to be that redic its time to stop and think "maybe this is a bit to much." mSH are good, but i know im not gona just die, same for every other class on order or destro. Like Slayers, you think "okay I can counter this, I can use my actions to mitigate this". A geared WL gets on you unless you gimp yourself and just be a walking hp sponge, he is gona kill you.

Imagine if I faced two bomblings, can still cleanse, back off , los etc. If I face a slayer/chopper I can use geometry and **** , kite , whatever. Doesn't matter for WL. If I get KD im prob gona die in 2-3 GCD. Point is there is no other class that makes it so that nothing you do matters. You just accept death.
Because WL, shouldn't be that bursty teleporter it is right now it makes no sense.
WH + ASW should fill the role of this burst, right now WL is stronger than both of them why bother making asws,wh as burst when you can have the whole package in WL? speed,tank,burst,aoe,close gaper,engager,disengager + companion, silencer + 2kds!! + SLOWS + root smh.

WL shouldn't be a bursty class.
Should be a tanky sustainable damager with a pet, that makes it unique and somehow acceptable for having his teleportation skills+catching skills makes sense + gives him a role, catching people while dealing reasonable sustainable damage, close to what MSH and maras are just maybe better. and this gives a legitimate reason for WL to have its' tools.
That way if you get chased by a WL, you know it will catch you but you can deal with him, and that way WL helps his order teammates to kill that caught target, since this isn't a 1v1 game.

and now WLS will have a cool role, a hunter with a pet that can stalk its' prey for days, ;) dealing damage to the enemies and chases them for their days to feed their mighty white lion :)
So you can still be a solo player with a companion pet, just no boom boom 2 sec dead burst, but good sustainable damage, but you will have a role to catch people something that other classes are missing in your faction, and you will be the last piece of the puzzle to complete it.

By buffing WH/WE those classes will counter the AM/Shaman solo archetype or at least be the answer to them, in that case we have a balance. even give ASW/WH/WE a room now for their burst role.
and now you will have WH/ASW as shaman counter, and WL as a counter to shaman's run away, if that's what you care about.

sogeou
Posts: 217

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#65 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:50 pm

Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:06 pm
sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:59 pm
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

Anyone who dies in 2-3 seconds is doing something wrong and should look to find out what their issue is. Melee SW is not burst as you say, they hit a few moves to do their damage. The way burst is used is via pets and other things which the mSH / WL do best.

The fact you listed mSH as sustain damage is funny. mSH has the same weakness as the WL. Just the WL has some tactics which help their dumb pet and stances which buff them and makes them live longer. But, if you don't play both classes or sides you will never know. Only WL's killing people are fast are BiS WL's kill mostly people in bad spots or under geared. Or killing the class their counter.
MSH doesn't nearly have the same burst as WL, they have the sustain you can test it out if you want by dueling the classes.
How's Melee SWS aren't bursty as I say? They aren't popular but trust me they are very bursty, things can be adjusted and fix WH class, there you go. Why is WL a bursty teleporter? it shouldn't be one. In that way you have WH & ASw that can counter shaman, if that's what you are so worried about, but WLS? they shouldn't be the bursty teleporters they're now, if needed ASWS can be adjusted as well.
In case of a WH fix, WE should get fixed whatever is needed as well, and maybe mara buff, I say give mara a burst spec with teleport like ASW. and in this way we reach a balance among the classes sort of at least.

P.S.
The only reason why you claim burst of ASW isn't good enough is because WL is an over tuned class, it takes the place of both asw+wh, why would one open wh/asw, when you can just play WL, stealth or not you do the burst your class isn't supposed to do, and you're damn better at it than the designed classes for it.
Sorry dude, you don't know what you are talking about. mSH have more burst than any other class besides a WL. They are not that far behind them in equal gear. I have both classes. I am sure you don't. Reason why mSH kinda have it easy is AM's can't just run away and are free kills vs how shaman have a much better chance at running away.

Plus mSH have **** ton of life, parry, armor plus self heal. Both classes are very strong. Also you add in the fact as a mSH you can run anyone down who is on a mount is the best thing even.

Grimfang
Suspended
Posts: 125

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#66 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:53 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:21 pm
The shaman problem is all pure dps shaman are bad, and it is a learn to play issue and their spec is bad. The shaman in the video is better than all those DPS shaman because they don't want to be mix spec and only want to pew pew. If you want to play like that, you will get bursted down and die.
Ive been in cities with sco and he doesnt kill anything because that spec is useless outside 1v1. Ive seen healers outdamage that spec. The shaman like reporter that kill stuff are those pure dps shaman. You have to take the center tree to get the aoe damage, toughness debuff, heal debuff and burst channel. Pure dps isnt a bad spec, its just bad for Xv1, its much better anywhere else as your damage wont just get outhealed by a hot.

Sulorie
Posts: 4877

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#67 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:56 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:21 pm

The shaman problem is all pure dps shaman are bad, and it is a learn to play issue and their spec is bad. The shaman in the video is better than all those DPS shaman because they don't want to be mix spec and only want to pew pew. If you want to play like that, you will get bursted down and die.
When you want to fill a dps role in a group fight, you have to spec accordingly. You have others to guard and heal you, you don't have to max your self-sustain. The spec in the video is for dueling and more safety for soloing but it generates no pressure against anyone actually healing himself or others.
Dying is no option.

sogeou
Posts: 217

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#68 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:01 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:56 pm
sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:21 pm

The shaman problem is all pure dps shaman are bad, and it is a learn to play issue and their spec is bad. The shaman in the video is better than all those DPS shaman because they don't want to be mix spec and only want to pew pew. If you want to play like that, you will get bursted down and die.
When you want to fill a dps role in a group fight, you have to spec accordingly. You have others to guard and heal you, you don't have to max your self-sustain. The spec in the video is for dueling and more safety for soloing but it generates no pressure against anyone actually healing himself or others.
For sure, I agree with if you are going to be DPS shaman, DPS. But, you can't cry when you get killed by the other class which can kill a DPS shaman. There is a counter way to play, and not all WL's kill DPS shaman.

Also, if he is filling a role he has a group. DPS shaman just want to be solo gods out in lakes.

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komar9220
Posts: 66

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#69 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:02 pm

Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm
sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:21 pm
Grimfang wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:19 am
Two hots, Toughness debuff, Toughness hot, Intel steal, Resist debuff on their heal tree from puddle. Shaman will beat an AM if they spec defensively as they have better debuffs, buffs and heal over time. Problem is most Shaman go for nuking instead of going into their amazing heal tree. Theres a big stat difference once you have all your self buffs and steal up. Its the reason the intel steal dot was taken away on live as nothing could beat them.
Telen runs EoV, DE and arcing power thats how he gets healing on a dps build.
The shaman problem is all pure dps shaman are bad, and it is a learn to play issue and their spec is bad. The shaman in the video is better than all those DPS shaman because they don't want to be mix spec and only want to pew pew. If you want to play like that, you will get bursted down and die.
Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

WL should be a tank melee class- with sustained damage period. and then your teleporting can be justified and you'll be similiar to an MSH.
Just because a class is build in a certain way, doesn't make this okay, Read between the lines "- Cleave Limb (WL): Cooldown increased from 5s to 10s, duration reduced from 10s to 5s. This makes it mirror the snare abilities other mdps get" clearly says "guys the slow have been over tuned for years, sorry, let's normalize it", but that's really nothing, WL shouldn't have this kind of burst to begin with. Instead fix WH whatever is needed, and there you go balance.

Now about AMS and Sco the shaman in the video.
The guy is a good player, and I got the build from him, but he is making mistakes in my opinion
He is mixing 3 sets, which gives you 0 benefits whatsoever, you don't need that extra int bonus, extra set bonus from warlord much more beneficial with mixing 3 sets you don't get the less chance to be disrupted by 6% (warlord 4 piece bonus) +sweet 99 magic power :). He also either has wounds talis or wounds renown, in any case if he has wounds renown he has no DD which I don't think is good, if he has wounds talis then he has half wounds renown, and then half DD which might work I haven't tested.
If he has full wounds renown and no DD, I don't see the use of extra 700 hp vs full DD, if it's half & half haven't tested myself.

The only way to counter AMS as I see it, is getting maxed DD on your renown build, anyhow a similiar AM with your build and playstyle should counter you, for the simple fact your damage comes from dots in this build, AM can cleanse those dots, that's it, silence shaman, cleanse dots, play defensively and ap drain him, what else can the shammy do? run away or die, eventually the battle should be won by the AM.
hmm, i not have full warlord or sov, need more crest(
i use full int tals, not have extra wounds for rr, genius potion (+600ph)
Best kotbs alive

Chakxy
Posts: 4

Re: A dps shaman post

Post#70 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:35 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:59 pm
Theguyoftomorrow wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Says the guy that is playing a broken class that literally teleports and obliterates people in 2-3 seconds, regardless of your class spec build, unless you're a freaking tank(s&b), or getting caught in a pre detaunt, then the obliterate will happen in 5-6 seconds.
Why is WL a bursty class anyway?
Order faction:
Slayer sustain aoe mostly can solo damage too,
ASW- Burst melee
WH - Burst
Why is WL a bursty teleporter?

Destro faction:
WE - burst
MSH-?? sustain
Choppa-sustain/solo
Mara-?? Sustain/Little burst/Aoe

Anyone who dies in 2-3 seconds is doing something wrong and should look to find out what their issue is. Melee SW is not burst as you say, they hit a few moves to do their damage. The way burst is used is via pets and other things which the mSH / WL do best.

The fact you listed mSH as sustain damage is funny. mSH has the same weakness as the WL. Just the WL has some tactics which help their dumb pet and stances which buff them and makes them live longer. But, if you don't play both classes or sides you will never know. Only WL's killing people are fast are BiS WL's kill mostly people in bad spots or under geared. Or killing the class their counter.
Have you ever had a WL pounce, armor debuff and coordinated strike? That's like the 70% of your HP as a ranged dps even if you are geared, positioning is pointless he can remove snares and charge to leave, or better yet, he can remove snares, pounce the frontline from the back and then charge to get into safety for heals/guard if he doesn't kill you or he could simply pounce on you once you are at 60% to finish you off and that works very well.
The pet could also do that for you so you can simply M1 him and have fun with your static victim.
Which other class can do something similar and repeat it all the time?

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