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What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

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Foofmonger
Posts: 436

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#51 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:22 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am
have you considered that damage should reflect a certain risk:reward formula and allowing a class with low risk access to high rewards would be bad from balancing POV?
That's always been this games issue, and it was obviously worse on live, but the way in which it was balanced in the first place was always out of whack. Remember the damage of Magus/Engies in the early days of live after they fixed AoE stacking and CC timers? All risk, no reward. Generally speaking, this is balanced by the archetype system. Which still on this server is slightly out of whack, but it's way better than live.

For the SW, it has 2 effective mastery paths that are ranged, as does the SH. There was always a purpose with the 2 paths, which was "you get one path that makes you a sniper, and one path that makes you a mobile shooter". One of the problems these archetypes have always had was being overshadowed by the BW/Sorc in terms of raw damage.

Again, with the SW ranged nerf in skirm and a change to the risk vs reward formula, we can see the spectre of BW/Sorc loom, who again have higher damage generally, but don't have the range restrictions of any of the other RDPS classes (as Magus/Engie also have range restrictions but also pets that let them change those restrictions now). So this causes specs like skirm to "feel" more like pull engie/magus than a true RDPS class in your effective range. It doesn't seem like this patch gave skirm enough reward for doing this though, as the damage is still too low.

In my opinion, it honestly sounds like this is a PSM scaling issue a la the Marauder buffs in March, and is pretty easily fixable by making the now ranged nerfed skirm abilities do more damage.

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Bergbart
Posts: 16

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#52 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:27 pm

mmmh make Flame Arrow great

More Basic inital damage(like Eagleeye) and more Dot Damage and a pbaoe like bw fire rain(with tactiv more but the malus need 2-3 cast time and 65 ft range or 50 (for risk and reward)) a big fat one shot (not one shot enemys ) aoe with 20-30 sec cd.

Steady Aim: make skirmischer skills castable on move.

Lileath arrow: Armor Ignore 25%(with skirmisch Tacik 50%) or magical damage

Rework fell the weak:
increas Basic Damage to Eagle eye(a bit more)
No Damage Boost at 30% enemy Hp better.... ---> you become 5% more Critdam for every 10% hp the enmy lost
90% Hp---> 5% Critdam
10% Hp --->45% Critdam

dont beat me:)

Edit: Flanking shot not get extra Crit for every 10% hp lost (Sw has enough critt) make it Critdamage(i know op^^)--> extra cooldown for that
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anarchypark
Posts: 1602

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#53 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:46 am

try Powerful Draw + Glass Arrow + VoN as skirmisher.
just seek moment when to stop moving and change stance.
It's old(?) burst dmg, only need some control from players.

at this moment i'm not sure i will go back to scout or stay skirm.
kill power is definitely scout but skirm is more challenging, fun
if you're looking for challenge kiting SW will give you one.
has anyone tried silence 1 healer and KD another one in a row? no matter what you spec. It's so satisfying.

still testing aoe but guard/heal is so rare for me.
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agemennon675
Posts: 150

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#54 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:46 am
try Powerful Draw + Glass Arrow + VoN as skirmisher.
just seek moment when to stop moving and change stance.
It's old(?) burst dmg, only need some control from players.

at this moment i'm not sure i will go back to scout or stay skirm.
kill power is definitely scout but skirm is more challenging, fun
if you're looking for challenge kiting SW will give you one.
has anyone tried silence 1 healer and KD another one in a row? no matter what you spec. It's so satisfying.

still testing aoe but guard/heal is so rare for me.
You know Glass Arrow is only for scout right ? Why I have to corret you on every post you write about SW, I dont think you ever tried the class... I feel like I am in a dejavu writing this comment right now

UnspeakableOath
Posts: 23

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#55 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:10 pm

agemennon675 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:46 am
try Powerful Draw + Glass Arrow + VoN as skirmisher.
just seek moment when to stop moving and change stance.
It's old(?) burst dmg, only need some control from players.

at this moment i'm not sure i will go back to scout or stay skirm.
kill power is definitely scout but skirm is more challenging, fun
if you're looking for challenge kiting SW will give you one.
has anyone tried silence 1 healer and KD another one in a row? no matter what you spec. It's so satisfying.

still testing aoe but guard/heal is so rare for me.
You know Glass Arrow is only for scout right ? Why I have to corret you on every post you write about SW, I dont think you ever tried the class... I feel like I am in a dejavu writing this comment right now
This is why I stopped trying. The devs aren't listening, as far as I can tell, or at least won't acknowledge anyone and half of the posts are gibberish noise like this rather than signal.

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Stophy22
Posts: 339

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#56 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:52 pm

UnspeakableOath wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:10 pm
agemennon675 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm
anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:46 am
try Powerful Draw + Glass Arrow + VoN as skirmisher.
just seek moment when to stop moving and change stance.
It's old(?) burst dmg, only need some control from players.

at this moment i'm not sure i will go back to scout or stay skirm.
kill power is definitely scout but skirm is more challenging, fun
if you're looking for challenge kiting SW will give you one.
has anyone tried silence 1 healer and KD another one in a row? no matter what you spec. It's so satisfying.

still testing aoe but guard/heal is so rare for me.
You know Glass Arrow is only for scout right ? Why I have to corret you on every post you write about SW, I dont think you ever tried the class... I feel like I am in a dejavu writing this comment right now
This is why I stopped trying. The devs aren't listening, as far as I can tell, or at least won't acknowledge anyone and half of the posts are gibberish noise like this rather than signal.

Welcome to RoR mang, Things take a lot of time to implement (2 weeks) and community advice/opinion isn't usually sifted through and mostly chalked up to childish whining. A small team can't do it all sadly. WL's used to be pretty crazy experimental with guardian, then tweaks were made to try to correct it and then ultimately it was reverted to what it was before changes.

I guess the main point is things take a lot of time to happen, shadow warrior will probably be reverted if they can't correct it. Help from the community looks more like crying and time is limited, people might burn out working on one thing and realizing EVERYONE hates it. Not everyone is kind to them and usually treat others how you want to be treated is a popular moral in life. Working on something can burn you out and you might want to work on something else. Maybe data is being collected? Who honestly knows we're kept in the dark for most of it.

Could be changes are right around the corner, just haven't been implemented yet. Give it 2 weeks.
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wargrimnir
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Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#57 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:05 pm

Stophy22 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:52 pm
UnspeakableOath wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:10 pm
agemennon675 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm


You know Glass Arrow is only for scout right ? Why I have to corret you on every post you write about SW, I dont think you ever tried the class... I feel like I am in a dejavu writing this comment right now
This is why I stopped trying. The devs aren't listening, as far as I can tell, or at least won't acknowledge anyone and half of the posts are gibberish noise like this rather than signal.

Welcome to RoR mang, Things take a lot of time to implement (2 weeks) and community advice/opinion isn't usually sifted through and mostly chalked up to childish whining. A small team can't do it all sadly. WL's used to be pretty crazy experimental with guardian, then tweaks were made to try to correct it and then ultimately it was reverted to what it was before changes.

I guess the main point is things take a lot of time to happen, shadow warrior will probably be reverted if they can't correct it. Help from the community looks more like crying and time is limited, people might burn out working on one thing and realizing EVERYONE hates it. Not everyone is kind to them and usually treat others how you want to be treated is a popular moral in life. Working on something can burn you out and you might want to work on something else. Maybe data is being collected? Who honestly knows we're kept in the dark for most of it.

Could be changes are right around the corner, just haven't been implemented yet. Give it 2 weeks.
You think we weren't going to get endless forum threads with any direction we've taken? That's probably the most naive take I've heard on the changes so far. Everything is proceeding as planned, there's no grand revert coming in the future.
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Bergbart
Posts: 16

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#58 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:21 pm

Also Warhammer is alive and Vitaly for the game

But the Devs have to manage muhhh balancing
muhh Forth
Muhh Citie
Muhhh Class x
Muhh Bugs.
Muhh Contend
and so on
they become private posts and must manage the judgement and the feddback
The devs . have Private life to and other things.
I dont know what the most players want for nothing.

Sw Change its how it is , deal with it

Sry to Drunken Devs. Delete me

I mean im drunken:P my englisch is very bad
Choppa rr 70
Sw rr 62

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Stophy22
Posts: 339

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#59 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:55 am

Spoiler:
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Stophy22 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:52 pm
UnspeakableOath wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:10 pm


This is why I stopped trying. The devs aren't listening, as far as I can tell, or at least won't acknowledge anyone and half of the posts are gibberish noise like this rather than signal.

Welcome to RoR mang, Things take a lot of time to implement (2 weeks) and community advice/opinion isn't usually sifted through and mostly chalked up to childish whining. A small team can't do it all sadly. WL's used to be pretty crazy experimental with guardian, then tweaks were made to try to correct it and then ultimately it was reverted to what it was before changes.

I guess the main point is things take a lot of time to happen, shadow warrior will probably be reverted if they can't correct it. Help from the community looks more like crying and time is limited, people might burn out working on one thing and realizing EVERYONE hates it. Not everyone is kind to them and usually treat others how you want to be treated is a popular moral in life. Working on something can burn you out and you might want to work on something else. Maybe data is being collected? Who honestly knows we're kept in the dark for most of it.

Could be changes are right around the corner, just haven't been implemented yet. Give it 2 weeks.
You think we weren't going to get endless forum threads with any direction we've taken? That's probably the most naive take I've heard on the changes so far. Everything is proceeding as planned, there's no grand revert coming in the future.

Didn't realize it was naive of me to say that you guys have limited time and small team, and a bi-product of that was a lack of communication and what seems like, to players, a lack of faith with the community and that not all whiny responses would be sifted through to see the importance or credibility behind it. And if the changes are ill-received they would be reverted as they have in the past.

-tank guard changes
-White lion Guardian changes
-Original Dok/WP changes
-Original AM/Sham changes

Just to name a few. Also didn't realize it was naive to think the reason it wasn't being worked on (no shadowarrior changes last patch) was because people might have burned out or set it aside to gather more data on the fact...

You will get, "endless forum threads" because you fail to address to the people who play your game where you are going, what you are doing, and what you are thinking. If you don't feel like you owe or should give us any of that then I don't see how I'm being naive as that is literally keeping us in the dark. I think it is incredibly naive to think you will never have to under any circumstance revert changes and that any change made is incredibly correct and going according to plan and to not use the huge community of players who sink thousands of hours into this private server, but I don't know what you're thinking or planning. Maybe you wanted to see how morale drain worked on shadow warrior, saw it was too strong and nerfed. Maybe you wanted to see how extra proc damage worked, realize it was too strong and nerfed that. But alas how would I know, none of this information was conveyed. There is no reason to changes or information to back it up. Changes just happen and we as a community is left to interpret the why, with or without bias.

I.E. Shadow warrior was given these changes to be able to participate in content they was otherwise deemed unworthy to participate in being over shadowed (haha) by other strong range dps choices or specs.

Instead we got this,
Spoiler:
"Shadow Warrior changes have arrived. These changes are aimed (haha) at giving ranged Shadow Warrior specs a bit more love, something long overdue. Naturally we will be keeping a close eye on how these changes perform.

Squig Herders are coming up next, but we're going to give it at least a week before we get started on their changes.

Please provide theorycrafting and feedback about these changes on the forums after thoroughly testing them of course."
You don't specify a class direction, a role you're working on for the shadow warrior, or an identity or specific spot he can fill. You don't even describe how these changes will help or where they were intended to improve shadow warrior, although you could leave that up to testing you still should explain where shadow warrior was under preforming (needed love) and where preformance (love) was given.

rSW was the spec that needed help but crosscut ended up getting a 3rd hit, a mSW ability. Changes like this leave us as a community wondering what the heck is going on with no answer to be found.

And maybe this is all out of your ability to do (since you are a small team) and if that's the case then my "naivety" is justified. And the final nail in the coffin is we aren't truly allowed to voice our opinion since it will result in exile, punishment, or some kind of other harm to our account or character well-being. I don't mind being called naive but I've been on this server since t1 and seen it all, my post wasn't meant to attack or offend it was to explain simple truths, those being:

You have a small team, changes don't come out as often as most would like, and little to no communication is given to the community about upcoming changes or change direction. An example is we've complained about forts and city content for a few weeks (maybe few months) now providing feedback and you tell us to, "make the most of it" I assume since resources and time are limited then subsequently hit us with sleeper Arena of Quaph and new weapon skins. This is fine because its your server and your direction to take but things just seem so one sided with any constructive or informative talk being met with responses or sarcasm akin to, "don't like it, leave."
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Fey
Posts: 506

Re: What is a ranged shadow warriors role meant to be exactly?

Post#60 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:27 am

Ranged SW might be a good spot to re-introduce cripples back into the game. In other words a damage type that can't be cleansed except with say, subjugator cloak, juggernaut, or a morale cleanse ability.

Stacking dots are pretty bad in this game. Make BHA a cripple that can't be cleansed. It won't act as a cover ailment anymore, but it will act like morale damage assuming it doesn't get dodged when it's re-applied.

All sorts of abilities in the game are described as a cripple. We can glean some useful balance information from the ability descriptions that have survived from the original game. I expect the prima guide as well is a fountain of information in this regard.

Maybe VoN changes your ailments into cripples instead for the duration. Then whirling pin will snare the melee train with an un-cleansable snare for 10 seconds, assuming it lands.

Bring back the cripple!
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