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Zxul
Posts: 917

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#11 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Orontes wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:35 pm
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:53 am
Orontes wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:32 pm
A couple patches back Mist and Napalm were addressed. This is because the Powers correctly recognized that these two premier 13 pt. abilities for the Changing and Grenadier Masteries were subpar.
What actually happened was that devs found out those two were proccing things which they shouldn't.


Not according to the Devs that made the changes. I think you are confusing a separate topic. On April 29th the following change occurred:


- Abilities with a ground targeted dot effect will now properly deal DOT damage instead of Direct damage.
Ex.
Napalm Grenade
Dissolving Mist
Blast Potions

That is not the issue at hand. A quote from the Change log in question, dated May 13th:


Dissolving Mist and Napalm Grenade

- Base damage and Primary Stat Mult have both been increased significantly.

This is to follow up on changes last week that removed the ability for this damage to crit and deal proc damage. Testing with 1100 INT and damage buff from the pet, unmitigiated, Dissolving Mist deals about 700 damage every 2s at the third stage of the damage ramp. This should make this 13pt spec ability less trivial for PvP uses, but will still be monitored over the next patch to see if it is still over/underperforming. 
 



In response from a number of engi/magi that noted after the fact these changes when taking into account any amount of mitigation were doing far far less damage, the Devs replied:


(T)hat's right around where it was expected to be. Once we add crits back to it, should be fine.

The ask is to see what was stated will be added back, to be added back.
Both are part of the same change, first part was the nerf- no more procs, second part was buffing it a bit without unnerfing it.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Orontes
Posts: 198

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#12 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:43 am

drmordread wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:57 pm
Sorry not sorry, but if WL pets are affected one way, ALL pets must be affected same way. And I play WL/SqH/Engi/Magus!!

Yeah, it sucks that my daemons/turrets get blown to shreds, but the boo hoo crowd wanted my lion pet to die instantly. You get what you asked for.!!!!!
Pouncer's beasts are far far more resilient than any turret or daemon. The shot fired at lions missed and hit engi and magi. Turrets and daemons can be literally one shot from a ballista or any other AOE.

Orontes
Posts: 198

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#13 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:50 am

Zxul wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Both are part of the same change, first part was the nerf- no more procs, second part was buffing it a bit without unnerfing it.
The larger comments surrounding the changes to Mist and Napalm were from complaints on the forums that the 13pt. abilities were rubbish. The Powers agreed and made the changes they did. Whether the two abilites are DOTs or direct damage isn't relevant. The intent was to strengthen these abilities. The removal of being able to crit. means they are now weaker than before. This error was also recognized and the Powers said they would be adding crit. back in. The quote was provided. It hasn't happened yet. Thus the thread. It's not more complex than that.

Zxul
Posts: 917

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#14 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:24 am

Orontes wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:50 am
Zxul wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Both are part of the same change, first part was the nerf- no more procs, second part was buffing it a bit without unnerfing it.
The larger comments surrounding the changes to Mist and Napalm were from complaints on the forums that the 13pt. abilities were rubbish. The Powers agreed and made the changes they did. Whether the two abilites are DOTs or direct damage isn't relevant. The intent was to strengthen these abilities. The removal of being able to crit. means they are now weaker than before. This error was also recognized and the Powers said they would be adding crit. back in. The quote was provided. It hasn't happened yet. Thus the thread. It's not more complex than that.
The actual timeline was this:
-Chosen's Dire Shielding was fixed to actually affect all allies in 30 f.
-Engies placing Napalm started complaining about being hit by 10x Bane Shielding on each Napalm tick.
-When discussing this, someone mentioned Napalm proccing things.
-Wargrimnir commented that Napalm proccing things, as well as dmg pots proccing things, wasn't intended.
-Napalm/Mist, as well as dmg pots, were nerfed- no more procs, as well as no more crits.
-Engies/maguses complained that after change dmg on Napalm/Mist sucks.
-Devs upped the dmg, without unnerfing the procs part, possibly not all fix is working.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 162

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#15 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 am

Thing is devs decide what is intended or not and it can change on a whim.

Napalm/mist is not a dot. And if we're talking actual original game design intentions, it IS supposed to be direct damage, that's why it's worded the way it is in the tool tip. It's not described as X amount of damage over 30 seconds. Same thing as lightning rod... not a dot but that's no where near as effective as napalm was for proccing de buffs. THAT'S why napalm was nerfed not because of "intentional design" but the devs and Wam simply wanted to nerf it to **** because at that point in time they thought it was OP and they wanted something to blame for not being able to take keeps and forts when they were outnumbered.

Not only that but nobody knows that napalm/mist is not actually gaining the damage mechanic from the turret since the nerf, so it's been nerfed by an additional 40% as well as taking away it's critical chance.

Engi was never a primary damage dealer and was mainly taken as utility and each year they pluck more and more from what it used to have.
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/70

emiliorv
Posts: 519

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#16 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:14 am

Zxul wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:24 am
Spoiler:
Orontes wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:50 am
Zxul wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Both are part of the same change, first part was the nerf- no more procs, second part was buffing it a bit without unnerfing it.
The larger comments surrounding the changes to Mist and Napalm were from complaints on the forums that the 13pt. abilities were rubbish. The Powers agreed and made the changes they did. Whether the two abilites are DOTs or direct damage isn't relevant. The intent was to strengthen these abilities. The removal of being able to crit. means they are now weaker than before. This error was also recognized and the Powers said they would be adding crit. back in. The quote was provided. It hasn't happened yet. Thus the thread. It's not more complex than that.
The actual timeline was this:
-Chosen's Dire Shielding was fixed to actually affect all allies in 30 f.
-Engies placing Napalm started complaining about being hit by 10x Bane Shielding on each Napalm tick.
Spoiler:
-When discussing this, someone mentioned Napalm proccing things.
-Wargrimnir commented that Napalm proccing things, as well as dmg pots proccing things, wasn't intended.
-Napalm/Mist, as well as dmg pots, were nerfed- no more procs, as well as no more crits.
-Engies/maguses complained that after change dmg on Napalm/Mist sucks.
-Devs upped the dmg, without unnerfing the procs part, possibly not all fix is working.
hahahha pissed by karma...

gglanouille
Posts: 31

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#17 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am

i see a lot of ppl talking and complaining, but can we get an advice from the RoR team ?
I mean:
-it's gonna be fixed but not now because SW/SH fixes are the priority ?
-it's normal that no crits no buff from pets so we can stop complaining it will not change
-Ah ? ror team didn't know about that ?

And about the pets/turret/daemon way to be healed by the group heals ?
it's :
-Possible but need to find a way to patch it a bit ?
-Absolutely no way (explain the reasons pls) ?
- maybe not group heal but maybe gettingthem out of AoE ?

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 162

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#18 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:54 am

gglanouille wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am
i see a lot of ppl talking and complaining, but can we get an advice from the RoR team ?
I mean:
-it's gonna be fixed but not now because SW/SH fixes are the priority ?
-it's normal that no crits no buff from pets so we can stop complaining it will not change
-Ah ? ror team didn't know about that ?

And about the pets/turret/daemon way to be healed by the group heals ?
it's :
-Possible but need to find a way to patch it a bit ?
-Absolutely no way (explain the reasons pls) ?
- maybe not group heal but maybe gettingthem out of AoE ?
It's not normal the devs nerfed 3 aspects of napalm when they were only targeting 1, then they boosted the base damage by a small amount and still deals considerably less damage than it always did
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/70

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gglanouille
Posts: 31

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#19 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:01 pm

Crumbs wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:54 am
gglanouille wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am
i see a lot of ppl talking and complaining, but can we get an advice from the RoR team ?
I mean:
-it's gonna be fixed but not now because SW/SH fixes are the priority ?
-it's normal that no crits no buff from pets so we can stop complaining it will not change
-Ah ? ror team didn't know about that ?

And about the pets/turret/daemon way to be healed by the group heals ?
it's :
-Possible but need to find a way to patch it a bit ?
-Absolutely no way (explain the reasons pls) ?
- maybe not group heal but maybe gettingthem out of AoE ?
It's not normal the devs nerfed 3 aspects of napalm when they were only targeting 1, then they boosted the base damage by a small amount and still deals considerably less damage than it always did
Well, you're a member of the RoR team ? let them speak we need to know if they understand the problem :D

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 162

Re: Mist/Napalm

Post#20 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:16 pm

gglanouille wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:01 pm
Crumbs wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:54 am
gglanouille wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am
i see a lot of ppl talking and complaining, but can we get an advice from the RoR team ?
I mean:
-it's gonna be fixed but not now because SW/SH fixes are the priority ?
-it's normal that no crits no buff from pets so we can stop complaining it will not change
-Ah ? ror team didn't know about that ?

And about the pets/turret/daemon way to be healed by the group heals ?
it's :
-Possible but need to find a way to patch it a bit ?
-Absolutely no way (explain the reasons pls) ?
- maybe not group heal but maybe gettingthem out of AoE ?
It's not normal the devs nerfed 3 aspects of napalm when they were only targeting 1, then they boosted the base damage by a small amount and still deals considerably less damage than it always did
Well, you're a member of the RoR team ? let them speak we need to know if they understand the problem :D
like I said before they don't care about engi right now for whatever reason or they think it's perfectly balanced, basically what I've said is as good as any answer you'll get from them atm
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/70

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