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City time must be fixed

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TreefAM
Posts: 269

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#31 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:04 am

It's not even about throwing zone, you can't help it when you see a perfect flanking opportunity. We tried our best to not allow forts to happen last night.

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drmordread
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Posts: 914

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#32 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:25 am

Forts and city happen, when the players decide it happens. Devs have nothing to do with when city pops.
Majority of players, are on during EU hours. This means that zones are always defended.
For months people complained about the realms not being balanced and one side having too much of a zerg. Now, realm pop is basically even. So taking zones to advance to a Fort, then city, is very hard to do.
Late NA / Early and Prime Oceania and Russian times are the least populated times of the game. This makes it easier.

There is really nothing the devs can do, other than cut down and reduce the number of players on during EU day and prime. And who wants to try and play and hit a waiting que to log in?
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M0rw47h
Posts: 508

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#33 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:31 am

drmordread wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:25 am
There is really nothing the devs can do, other than cut down and reduce the number of players on during EU day and prime. And who wants to try and play and hit a waiting que to log in?
They can make CS happen and fixed hours.
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Foltestik
Posts: 571

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#34 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:40 am

M0rw47h wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:31 am
drmordread wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:25 am
There is really nothing the devs can do, other than cut down and reduce the number of players on during EU day and prime. And who wants to try and play and hit a waiting que to log in?
They can make CS happen and fixed hours.
and people will log only for that fixed time :)

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M0rw47h
Posts: 508

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#35 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:43 am

Foltestik wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:40 am
M0rw47h wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:31 am
drmordread wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:25 am
There is really nothing the devs can do, other than cut down and reduce the number of players on during EU day and prime. And who wants to try and play and hit a waiting que to log in?
They can make CS happen and fixed hours.
and people will log only for that fixed time :)
City loggers are lesser issue than City Sieges happening when 90% of playerbase can't play, don't you think?
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jvlosky
Posts: 158

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#36 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:56 am

I see where you are going with this but if you delay a stage of oRVR till a specified time it puts breaks on literally every other part of oRVR. Normal keep flipping, free invaders from bags, last zone def, and forts.

I dunno dude it sucks but it is a good system. If you are dying for sov welcome to dying for sov. I dont think my gear grind for sov supersedes everyone elses grind.

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M0rw47h
Posts: 508

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#37 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:13 am

jvlosky wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:56 am
I see where you are going with this but if you delay a stage of oRVR till a specified time it puts breaks on literally every other part of oRVR. Normal keep flipping, free invaders from bags, last zone def, and forts.

I dunno dude it sucks but it is a good system. If you are dying for sov welcome to dying for sov. I dont think my gear grind for sov supersedes everyone elses grind.
I already got my gear, and I don't think remaining majority of players should be delayed because of BAD system.
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Permakappa
Posts: 3

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#38 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:01 pm

The system is really good if you accept that alot of people really just want to city & sov grind; these people are ready to xrealm, spy and do the puppet master with random pugs just to have this happen (on top of already organizing the stalemate, blocking badlands, rank up fort for stalemate, waking up in the middle of the night, researching to counter the current meta, leading guilds etc...); they put so much effort in that, they feel like they deserve the right to decide what and when are things happening (and i can't blame them, it's human nature).
So the topic is more complicated than it lookds (and i'm still 1month in this server so i kinda don't have all the elements); yes it's very hard to push keep with even numbers (and the landscape of some doesn't help either), and it's even harder to do it at primetime EU with the increase in numbers they have to deal with (which put alot of randomness into it); it just takes so much effort that a big part of these veterants are not willing to do for a content that they think is not worth their time; again, i'm new, i still enjoy every aspect of the game from roaming to puging to keeping to fortressing so i just play my ass off in all these invoronement but the more i do the more i realease i'm in the minority (how could I judge them in the end).
It's all about acceptance and embracing the system and if you happen to create a destro as a newcomer, and log only at eu primetime, you just have to know that you drew the short straw.

From my point of view, just changing the xrealming to 24h instead of 1h30 would drastically change the city time but i'm pretty sure the devs are ok with how it is at the moment (or maybe not ok but it's a lesser evil than handing end game gear for free, which is already bad from an hardcore player pov who is on this server since more than 1year or coding something that they will change in the future).

But think about that for a second, if you enjoyed the high numbers in pvp with lazy's hype, you already know that this is the kind of attitude that is reducing it in the long run. Devs can't fix something that is not broken but newcomers don't have to suffer for your greed either and that is the impact on player retention (even if you keep telling yourself that these players wouldn't have stick anyway). From my point of view, i don't really care, i still learn alot, i enjoy pvp in every forms and when i lose i almost always blame myself or my lack of knowledge/comitement, but i'm pretty sure i'm in the minority.

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nat3s
Posts: 258

Re: City time must be fixed

Post#39 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:14 pm

Manatikik wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 am
Who gets the City? The people who actually pushed the forts? Or the EU plebs who can't get anything done on their own? This idea is a cop out for people who are too lazy to form proper wbs (more than just one) and mass push multiple zones to get City; everyone wants to zerg to the zone that will fall so they can /afk and get free loot.

To everyone saying it's the players not the system, you are simple wrong.

You'll see from my sig I'm in PNP which is one of the more organised EU Destro guilds on the server. We regularly coordinate our WB nights (3 nights a week) with the other big Destro EU guilds like TUP to push zones. The other night between the coordinated Destro guilds we had 10 WBs up and running with comms between leaders and couldn't reach a city.

If PNP played during late US TZ I'm telling you we'd be farming daily cities as it's so much easier to reach a city during off peak hours with low pop. 1 guild in a 50vs30 is going to easily push, they won't be able to do that when it's 300vs250 in EU prime.

Late US TZ doesn't get cities because they play better, they get them because defensive strength currently scales with more people online because a keep/fort main door funnel allows roughly 5 people per second to pass through. 5 people a second stand a much better chance of pushing in against 30 defenders than 300! That is fundamentally a problem with the design of the system.

Solutions for me would include means to allow offensive strength to scale better, perhaps additional doors open to keeps/forts as zone pop increases or maybe the doors get wider (door opens further) the more people in zone or attacker player collision reduces the more people in zone - that kind of thing.

Alternatively there is a big nerf to how easy it is to secure a city during low pop. Let those late US TZ players understand what it's like to go weeks without a City.

For me improving the experience for EU prime should be the top priority as we're down 2k players. Be interested to know if retention metrics play any part in design direction.
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wargrimnir
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Re: City time must be fixed

Post#40 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:44 pm

Yanatsu wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 am
@wargrimnir :

Thank you for your reply. To be fair, the issue is caused by the players, the system itself is not broken. But at this point, like you said, endgame EU players don't get the endgame content, unless they play at night.
I know that you're a small dev team with limited time of dev, we all understand that of course. Here some ideas :

- If 2x Forts are taken, next city siege will be opened at a specific time (9PM for instance). Highest contributors will enter first
- The highest contributors in a cycle (the period between 2 city sieges), might pretend to a special city reward, for the work they've accomplished taking/defending castles/forts

If you have other ideas, please don't hesitate
Both of these and many other variations have already been on the board. We don't need everyone freaking out on the forums to have a think about what to do next. It's just a matter of getting free time dedicated to solving each problem.
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