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WL DMG Screenshot

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sogeou
Posts: 412

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#71 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:13 pm

Foofmonger wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:05 pm Frankly I think both sogeou and stophy are wrong here for the same reason - too much hyperbole in either direction.

I don't think WL's are unstoppable monsters, nor are they garbage who can't hurt/kill anyone except bads.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, let's be honest.
If you are an above avg WL attacking FMJ / TUP healer or tank you are legit hitting them for cirt 300/800 mit damage. Destro is mostly sov during the day time as russian guilds and other were farming the city for months.

Also, in this game vs live Sov has more armor than it should.

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#72 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:15 pm

If U go full armor talis, they told ya WL reduce armor so U should go hp talis. When U go hp talis, they tolda ya armor talis. End of story.

Jastojan
Posts: 221

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#73 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Stophy22 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:54 am For years white lion has been able to time stamp players.

For years people have complained.

For years it has remained imbalanced.

Now you have a choice as a player knowing something will never get fixed.

-Continue to complain about it.
-“if you can’t beat em join em.”
-figure out how to combat it.

There is oodles of data that proves WL has too much burst, too much mobility, and too much utility. So the cold hard truth remains.

Balance is not a top priority there is much more important stuff to work on.

Take it or leave it, I’ve been here since “torque’s guardian spec” and the many in between stages we had until now, the “dev plays WL” stage. The denial of white lions is a story that continues to this day.

Whenever someone brings up this topic you get the same responses;

-but melee squigs are stronger
-but marauder is stronger
-Destro complaining again, lol
-unsub if you’re that unhappy about it
-/popcorn
-WL has ap problems
-Try doing this...
-did you detaunt pet
-you’re probably just bad
-it used to be so much worse, it’s fine now.

And so many other stupid/unproductive/informative comments on player experience/personal struggles with WL.

I know better than to participate in these discussions but The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result and I assure you I must be mad.

But with the strict purpose of educating people take what you will with the information provided, or sift through the other hundreds of WL threads, whatever works.

Also to clarify it’s not that Mara doesn’t have burst, it’s that WL doubles his burst, making you feel like you can’t do anything as the mirror of a class that kills without use or need or a hdbuff. Mara actually hits harder with his abilities than WL does (shocked me too) after testing it. Mara consistently hits about 100-200 more. But there is more to the story than that.

- Shattering blow is much stronger than 3 stacks of rend and only requires one application
- WL has mobility far greater than its prey making it very easy to never have a “damn he got away” moment that you might have on Mara thanks to good enemy positioning or small windows of being unguarded.
- the toolkit at white lions disposal is much better being able to keep armor debuff and get arguably better burst than an execute with leonine and brutal pounce.
- The pet. Now the pet is the biggest deal, he has comparable damage to the marauder and can even out-damage him using Leonine frenzy. The pet is also too healthy and defensive from aoe damage it’s not an option to kill the pet without direct threat to your life. Like how easy it is to slay a squig for example or engi turret.
- and the final difference is how both classes achieve their damage. Using a rotation that is mirror-able and 2gcds long (meaning both classes share abilities) it goes something like this;

WL: armordebuff(aa)coordinated strike
Pet: maul(aa)fang and claw

White lion just clicked two abilities and the pet auto piloted, lets check out Mara

Mara: -gift of savagery- armordebuff(aa) -gift of brutality- Convulsive slashing.

Mara clicked an ability, switched a stance, used convulsive for 3 tics (no more, no less!) jump cancel. End.

With data from target dummies doing this combo Mara gets out damaged by about 4k(assuming everything is a crit for both classes). While his abilities hit harder he just can’t keep up in a contest that is 2v1, the pet makes it so vastly different and that’s without leonine frenzy and the main point behind it all is that more effort was put into a lesser outcome.

Call it fun, call it finesse, call it a reason to play marauder rather than WL, call it op, call it whatever you want... it’s been around for a long time and no matter how many of these threads pop up I don’t think foreseeable change is in the future.

Final thoughts

TLDR: to say there is no issue with the class is blatant ignorance but to act like it’s going to get fixed from forum posts is wishful thinking. There is a lot of inaccurate data when accusing white lions vs x class so I broke it down.
Pretty much this! I agree 100%.

Jastojan
Posts: 221

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#74 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:21 pm

sogeou wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:55 pm
Stophy22 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:54 am For years white lion has been able to time stamp players.

For years people have complained.

For years it has remained imbalanced.

Now you have a choice as a player knowing something will never get fixed.

-Continue to complain about it.
-“if you can’t beat em join em.”
-figure out how to combat it.

There is oodles of data that proves WL has too much burst, too much mobility, and too much utility. So the cold hard truth remains.

Balance is not a top priority there is much more important stuff to work on.

Take it or leave it, I’ve been here since “torque’s guardian spec” and the many in between stages we had until now, the “dev plays WL” stage. The denial of white lions is a story that continues to this day.

Whenever someone brings up this topic you get the same responses;

-but melee squigs are stronger
-but marauder is stronger
-Destro complaining again, lol
-unsub if you’re that unhappy about it
-/popcorn
-WL has ap problems
-Try doing this...
-did you detaunt pet
-you’re probably just bad
-it used to be so much worse, it’s fine now.

And so many other stupid/unproductive/informative comments on player experience/personal struggles with WL.

I know better than to participate in these discussions but The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result and I assure you I must be mad.

But with the strict purpose of educating people take what you will with the information provided, or sift through the other hundreds of WL threads, whatever works.

Also to clarify it’s not that Mara doesn’t have burst, it’s that WL doubles his burst, making you feel like you can’t do anything as the mirror of a class that kills without use or need or a hdbuff. Mara actually hits harder with his abilities than WL does (shocked me too) after testing it. Mara consistently hits about 100-200 more. But there is more to the story than that.

- Shattering blow is much stronger than 3 stacks of rend and only requires one application
- WL has mobility far greater than its prey making it very easy to never have a “damn he got away” moment that you might have on Mara thanks to good enemy positioning or small windows of being unguarded.
- the toolkit at white lions disposal is much better being able to keep armor debuff and get arguably better burst than an execute with leonine and brutal pounce.
- The pet. Now the pet is the biggest deal, he has comparable damage to the marauder and can even out-damage him using Leonine frenzy. The pet is also too healthy and defensive from aoe damage it’s not an option to kill the pet without direct threat to your life. Like how easy it is to slay a squig for example or engi turret.
- and the final difference is how both classes achieve their damage. Using a rotation that is mirror-able and 2gcds long (meaning both classes share abilities) it goes something like this;

WL: armordebuff(aa)coordinated strike
Pet: maul(aa)fang and claw

White lion just clicked two abilities and the pet auto piloted, lets check out Mara

Mara: -gift of savagery- armordebuff(aa) -gift of brutality- Convulsive slashing.

Mara clicked an ability, switched a stance, used convulsive for 3 tics (no more, no less!) jump cancel. End.

With data from target dummies doing this combo Mara gets out damaged by about 4k(assuming everything is a crit for both classes). While his abilities hit harder he just can’t keep up in a contest that is 2v1, the pet makes it so vastly different and that’s without leonine frenzy and the main point behind it all is that more effort was put into a lesser outcome.

Call it fun, call it finesse, call it a reason to play marauder rather than WL, call it op, call it whatever you want... it’s been around for a long time and no matter how many of these threads pop up I don’t think foreseeable change is in the future.

Final thoughts

TLDR: to say there is no issue with the class is blatant ignorance but to act like it’s going to get fixed from forum posts is wishful thinking. There is a lot of inaccurate data when accusing white lions vs x class so I broke it down.
Everything you posted is so full of **** and non truths lol. Give it a break QQ king. I have ZERO problems killing WL's on my mSH. Even being greatly out geared. Everything you list and say is whine, and most of it not true.

Like saying WL's pet out DPS other classes. The pet alone only does 500-700 dps max in bis gear. If you can't do more damage than that, you suck. Also, if your class is not running max amount of armor you are going to die.

If you are a running armor tali's and armor pot and have 3k+ armor along with low chance to be crit you will be fine. Every on here crying about a class doing too much damage because they are running glass cannon.

Classes which WL's can't kill unless someone makes a mistake. Heal spec Shaman, Heal Spec DOKs, Chosens, Black Orc, MSH, Black Guards, Zealots, Mara's like PINK, Self heal Choppa depends who gets KD and parries, Magus's like NGL kill almost all WL's.

The ones with the whine are glass cannon dps users, DPS shaman, ranged SH like a Yamcha, DPS tanks running FO, healers soft capped on willpower. People WHO don't detaunt.

WL's do almost laughable damage to all those full sov destro running around during EU prime time. Hitting targets for 300-400 max crit vs the 1k on the people are running around with no armor.
It looks like you are kidding.
You can not be serious man.

Dabush
Posts: 16

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#75 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:35 pm

Cool, here is another story of a shaman getting attacked (this time by 2 WL's).

I have what I would consider best in slot with +180 armor talisman in each slot possible.
3 levels of futile strikes
3092 armor (70.3%) reduction
chance to be critically hit

Jumped on and died before knockdown was over. Keep thinking WL's are not OP though.

wont let me upload the screenshot for some reason... but they are hitting me for 1300 (500 mitigated). With my armor damage reduction how is this possible? Working as intended?

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#76 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:55 pm

Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm
Stophy22 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:54 am For years white lion has been able to time stamp players.

For years people have complained.

For years it has remained imbalanced.

Now you have a choice as a player knowing something will never get fixed.

-Continue to complain about it.
-“if you can’t beat em join em.”
-figure out how to combat it.

There is oodles of data that proves WL has too much burst, too much mobility, and too much utility. So the cold hard truth remains.

Balance is not a top priority there is much more important stuff to work on.

Take it or leave it, I’ve been here since “torque’s guardian spec” and the many in between stages we had until now, the “dev plays WL” stage. The denial of white lions is a story that continues to this day.

Whenever someone brings up this topic you get the same responses;

-but melee squigs are stronger
-but marauder is stronger
-Destro complaining again, lol
-unsub if you’re that unhappy about it
-/popcorn
-WL has ap problems
-Try doing this...
-did you detaunt pet
-you’re probably just bad
-it used to be so much worse, it’s fine now.

And so many other stupid/unproductive/informative comments on player experience/personal struggles with WL.

I know better than to participate in these discussions but The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result and I assure you I must be mad.

But with the strict purpose of educating people take what you will with the information provided, or sift through the other hundreds of WL threads, whatever works.

Also to clarify it’s not that Mara doesn’t have burst, it’s that WL doubles his burst, making you feel like you can’t do anything as the mirror of a class that kills without use or need or a hdbuff. Mara actually hits harder with his abilities than WL does (shocked me too) after testing it. Mara consistently hits about 100-200 more. But there is more to the story than that.

- Shattering blow is much stronger than 3 stacks of rend and only requires one application
- WL has mobility far greater than its prey making it very easy to never have a “damn he got away” moment that you might have on Mara thanks to good enemy positioning or small windows of being unguarded.
- the toolkit at white lions disposal is much better being able to keep armor debuff and get arguably better burst than an execute with leonine and brutal pounce.
- The pet. Now the pet is the biggest deal, he has comparable damage to the marauder and can even out-damage him using Leonine frenzy. The pet is also too healthy and defensive from aoe damage it’s not an option to kill the pet without direct threat to your life. Like how easy it is to slay a squig for example or engi turret.
- and the final difference is how both classes achieve their damage. Using a rotation that is mirror-able and 2gcds long (meaning both classes share abilities) it goes something like this;

WL: armordebuff(aa)coordinated strike
Pet: maul(aa)fang and claw

White lion just clicked two abilities and the pet auto piloted, lets check out Mara

Mara: -gift of savagery- armordebuff(aa) -gift of brutality- Convulsive slashing.

Mara clicked an ability, switched a stance, used convulsive for 3 tics (no more, no less!) jump cancel. End.

With data from target dummies doing this combo Mara gets out damaged by about 4k(assuming everything is a crit for both classes). While his abilities hit harder he just can’t keep up in a contest that is 2v1, the pet makes it so vastly different and that’s without leonine frenzy and the main point behind it all is that more effort was put into a lesser outcome.

Call it fun, call it finesse, call it a reason to play marauder rather than WL, call it op, call it whatever you want... it’s been around for a long time and no matter how many of these threads pop up I don’t think foreseeable change is in the future.

Final thoughts

TLDR: to say there is no issue with the class is blatant ignorance but to act like it’s going to get fixed from forum posts is wishful thinking. There is a lot of inaccurate data when accusing white lions vs x class so I broke it down.
Pretty much this! I agree 100%.
yea..... do this and this and this and this when they do that and that and that, l2p, and spend 2k gold for 180 armor talis so that u can do less dmg but armor is good vs the WL, and do this and that combind with this this this... then may be u can have a good chance. lol

doxifera
Posts: 122

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#77 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:02 pm

I wonder how many potential players stopped playing because WLs, when a beginner(and not only they) seeing WL can immediately get ready to press respawn, and here it’s the matter of WL, because not a Slayer, not a WH, cant kill you for 3 seconds of stun, is just a jump- respawn.

Knowthyself
Game Artist
Posts: 84

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#78 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:07 pm

Sofong wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:55 pm
Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm
Stophy22 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:54 am For years white lion has been able to time stamp players.

For years people have complained.

For years it has remained imbalanced.

Now you have a choice as a player knowing something will never get fixed.

-Continue to complain about it.
-“if you can’t beat em join em.”
-figure out how to combat it.

There is oodles of data that proves WL has too much burst, too much mobility, and too much utility. So the cold hard truth remains.

Balance is not a top priority there is much more important stuff to work on.

Take it or leave it, I’ve been here since “torque’s guardian spec” and the many in between stages we had until now, the “dev plays WL” stage. The denial of white lions is a story that continues to this day.

Whenever someone brings up this topic you get the same responses;

-but melee squigs are stronger
-but marauder is stronger
-Destro complaining again, lol
-unsub if you’re that unhappy about it
-/popcorn
-WL has ap problems
-Try doing this...
-did you detaunt pet
-you’re probably just bad
-it used to be so much worse, it’s fine now.

And so many other stupid/unproductive/informative comments on player experience/personal struggles with WL.

I know better than to participate in these discussions but The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result and I assure you I must be mad.

But with the strict purpose of educating people take what you will with the information provided, or sift through the other hundreds of WL threads, whatever works.

Also to clarify it’s not that Mara doesn’t have burst, it’s that WL doubles his burst, making you feel like you can’t do anything as the mirror of a class that kills without use or need or a hdbuff. Mara actually hits harder with his abilities than WL does (shocked me too) after testing it. Mara consistently hits about 100-200 more. But there is more to the story than that.

- Shattering blow is much stronger than 3 stacks of rend and only requires one application
- WL has mobility far greater than its prey making it very easy to never have a “damn he got away” moment that you might have on Mara thanks to good enemy positioning or small windows of being unguarded.
- the toolkit at white lions disposal is much better being able to keep armor debuff and get arguably better burst than an execute with leonine and brutal pounce.
- The pet. Now the pet is the biggest deal, he has comparable damage to the marauder and can even out-damage him using Leonine frenzy. The pet is also too healthy and defensive from aoe damage it’s not an option to kill the pet without direct threat to your life. Like how easy it is to slay a squig for example or engi turret.
- and the final difference is how both classes achieve their damage. Using a rotation that is mirror-able and 2gcds long (meaning both classes share abilities) it goes something like this;

WL: armordebuff(aa)coordinated strike
Pet: maul(aa)fang and claw

White lion just clicked two abilities and the pet auto piloted, lets check out Mara

Mara: -gift of savagery- armordebuff(aa) -gift of brutality- Convulsive slashing.

Mara clicked an ability, switched a stance, used convulsive for 3 tics (no more, no less!) jump cancel. End.

With data from target dummies doing this combo Mara gets out damaged by about 4k(assuming everything is a crit for both classes). While his abilities hit harder he just can’t keep up in a contest that is 2v1, the pet makes it so vastly different and that’s without leonine frenzy and the main point behind it all is that more effort was put into a lesser outcome.

Call it fun, call it finesse, call it a reason to play marauder rather than WL, call it op, call it whatever you want... it’s been around for a long time and no matter how many of these threads pop up I don’t think foreseeable change is in the future.

Final thoughts

TLDR: to say there is no issue with the class is blatant ignorance but to act like it’s going to get fixed from forum posts is wishful thinking. There is a lot of inaccurate data when accusing white lions vs x class so I broke it down.
Pretty much this! I agree 100%.
yea..... do this and this and this and this when they do that and that and that, l2p, and spend 2k gold for 180 armor talis so that u can do less dmg but armor is good vs the WL, and do this and that combind with this this this... then may be u can have a good chance. lol
Let's not forget "no WL isn't good at all. It is you who iz a noob".
What I have read so far from the devoted WL defenders, to give an example: like that rage kid sogeou, regardless of any class, if you die to WLs you are a bad player. How dare you blame your weakness on such humble and well balanced above all noble class as White Lion. No, no it gotta be you, not the poor WLs.
Come On
Newgit
Knowthyself

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Dabush
Posts: 16

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#79 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:08 pm

doxifera wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:02 pm I wonder how many potential players stopped playing because WLs, when a beginner(and not only they) seeing WL can immediately get ready to press respawn, and here it’s the matter of WL, because not a Slayer, not a WH, cant kill you for 3 seconds of stun, is just a jump- respawn.
I have debated stopping many times because of WLs myself. No other class even compares.

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: WL DMG Screenshot

Post#80 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:13 pm

Knowthyself wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:07 pm
Sofong wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:55 pm
Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Pretty much this! I agree 100%.
yea..... do this and this and this and this when they do that and that and that, l2p, and spend 2k gold for 180 armor talis so that u can do less dmg but armor is good vs the WL, and do this and that combind with this this this... then may be u can have a good chance. lol
Let's not forget "no WL isn't good at all. It is you who iz a noob".
What I have read so far from the devoted WL defenders, to give an example: like that rage kid sogeou, regardless of any class, if you die to WLs you are a bad player. How dare you blame your weakness on such humble and well balanced above all noble class as White Lion. No, no it gotta be you, not the poor WLs.
and u popped everything, u actually managed to last through their burst, finally its ur turn to try to dps them down, they just ran away like a breeze with their unmatch mobility, l2p of cos. lol

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