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Shadow Warrior was fine.

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shadowcraft22
Posts: 8

Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#1 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:04 am

I understand the current thought is "shadow warriors suck" But i doubt most people parroting that meme have actually played the class. I make it a point to try out every class with an unfavorable reputation. Which is what brought me to shadow warrior. I've been playing mine, learning the ropes and honestly i've always had a blast. Even more so recently that i finally started to understand how it should be played. It has a lot of interesting abilities that don't seem powerful on paper but once you experiment with them a bit you'll find that they are formidable and a great addition to any party or warband. Which is why it makes me sad to note that you nerfed one of their most amazing abilities - Powerful Draw. On paper, a change from its 50% range buff to 25% flat armor pen seems powerful - but there's no point in having power if you are never in range to use it. I understand you probably won't revert these changes or even consider my request but i had to voice my opinion anyway.

Having the option to increase the range of skirmisher abilities allowed my ranged class to contribute excellently in sieges or in the midst of battle over areas. Now that i'm forced to use my aoes at 65 yards only, a large portion of that flexibility & unique utility has been removed. I can no longer help aoe ramparts, nor can i pressure groups as before near 100 yard in distance. I'm forced to be a single target even though i'm specializing in the aoe tree of the class. I can only assume some changes are made to classes with bad reputations in an attempt to get people to give these classes a fresh try, but please don't rob them of their existing uniqueness and give them flat damage buffs just to solve these reputation problems. I think if you ask most people who play shadow warrior predominantly you'll find players who are very happy with their class and what it had to offer. If there are any actual shadow warrior mains with any opinions (for or against) the current changes please put your opinions down here. It really breaks my heart to see my class "buffed" while also having it's unique abilities taken in exchange.

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landingsupport
Posts: 2

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#2 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:51 am

Im not sure why the decided to nerf Shadow Warrior to the ground. Definitely needs some buffs to just bring it back to what it was before these massive changes.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#3 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:23 am

I don't know if the buffs to make the SW a single-target ranged killer are good or bad as I have been waiting for things to settle a bit before hopping on mine. But I do know the OP never "pressured" anybody at 100 ft before with AOE, but just leached off of the real killers.

I also know that Destro is whining about the changes despite the fact that ranged SW are still more or less free kills that just a few more licks in now before dying. So if Destro hates it and if Order hates it then it must be ... balanced?

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Drekan
Posts: 62

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#4 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:32 am

Take 2700 on 4k5 dok armor with 40% resist 530 toughness with chosen and 0% chance to be crit. Its fine :)

With probably some debuff
Elizerain Thex

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axelpl85
Posts: 23

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#5 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:20 am

i like class changes that add more diversity to the game. Looking forward for more changes that make underdogs viable.
I do not like when enemy SW hurts bad as rdps , then outperforms pure mdps in close combat.
Hope that it is adressed, and expected SH changes wont make same mistake. SW and SH should be able to perform either of tasks effectively. but i feel BOTH on the fly is bit too much.

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agemennon675
Posts: 503

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#6 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:06 am

Sw was not fine but its somehow worse now ? Especially in skirmish spec, it was somewhat playable before the changes but too much nerf killed it for me, they even nerfed morale drain at day 1 before even fixing the changes that doesnt work so yeah, time to re-roll another main I guess
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#7 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 am

Have you even played the class yet? You still have 100ft range on your skirm abilities except shadow sting. It only goes down to 65ft if you slot the aoe tactic.
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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#8 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:45 am

saupreusse wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 am Have you even played the class yet? You still have 100ft range on your skirm abilities except shadow sting. It only goes down to 65ft if you slot the aoe tactic.
Takedown and Shadow Sting which are two very vital roles not only to kiting in skirmish but any competent play above pug stomping on Scout/ASW as well. Pretending that everything else has been tuned to a proper range but those two skills are left behind is a joke at best. The only things this change really did positively was: Barrage gives SW one slot per city WB, Rapid Fire is worth using due to Glass Arrow, and Shadow Sting/Fester being undefendable (though Fester should always be undefendable to mimic the bonuses of Snipe/BoC which was always logical even though never implemented.

SW was more challenging to play before and could do all the things it can now (except RKD from a scout build, but that was due to poor balancing I the past due to des whine) at a comparable level outside of City Play. Sure it required +2 from Sov and a little more skill but good players could easily make the ST build work in the same areas where it is useful now. I appreciate effort being shown into fixing problems of SW I think a little less grandiose approach and a little more input from experienced SW woulda helped make this process a little cleaner.
<Montague><Capulet>

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#9 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 am

Manatikik wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:45 am
saupreusse wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 am Have you even played the class yet? You still have 100ft range on your skirm abilities except shadow sting. It only goes down to 65ft if you slot the aoe tactic.
Takedown and Shadow Sting which are two very vital roles not only to kiting in skirmish but any competent play above pug stomping on Scout/ASW as well. Pretending that everything else has been tuned to a proper range but those two skills are left behind is a joke at best. The only things this change really did positively was: Barrage gives SW one slot per city WB, Rapid Fire is worth using due to Glass Arrow, and Shadow Sting/Fester being undefendable (though Fester should always be undefendable to mimic the bonuses of Snipe/BoC which was always logical even though never implemented.

SW was more challenging to play before and could do all the things it can now (except RKD from a scout build, but that was due to poor balancing I the past due to des whine) at a comparable level outside of City Play. Sure it required +2 from Sov and a little more skill but good players could easily make the ST build work in the same areas where it is useful now. I appreciate effort being shown into fixing problems of SW I think a little less grandiose approach and a little more input from experienced SW woulda helped make this process a little cleaner.
i didnt pretend anything. actually i am horribly disappointed that shadow sting is not 100ft anymore. the combination of a 65ft shadow sting and no glass arrow (not that it would help with just 65ft range) is super annoying. also it adds a layer of cluckiness to the class that wasnt there before. I can cast BHA but often cant follow up with SS due to the different ranges.
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Fenris78
Posts: 787

Re: Shadow Warrior was fine.

Post#10 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:07 am

saupreusse wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 am Have you even played the class yet? You still have 100ft range on your skirm abilities except shadow sting. It only goes down to 65ft if you slot the aoe tactic.
No. All skirmish skills are still 65ft range, saving BHA and SFA that have been buffed to 100ft base range.

Issue is now we lose the ability to use skirmish on decent range (was 98ft with Powerful Draw tactic before, up to 108ft for some skills that allowed Scout stance), for some damage that is barely visible anyway.
Having to stack BHA three times on tanks (since that's mostly only targets available at this range) is a chore, despite slotting all strikethrough tactics, and even after that spamming SFA for aoe damage is kind of dumb ; the skirmish gameplay is reduced to 2 spammable skills now...

Lileath arrow to 5s cd is the worst decision ever, since aoe has already been nerfed to the ground, and range restriction of split arrow is far worse than before where SFA had 30% damage reduction.

Now we are force to use scout skills (wich are not really better than before), and thanks to the switch of ranged KD to scout tree, it's now impossible to properly make a skirmish/assault build without sacrifiying one of the rare tools that make SW useful.

Conclusion : scout is barely better (it could use ranged kd, but it would have been fine on skirmish 5pt tree), skirmish become unplayable without sacrifying your efficiency at standard (100ft) range, and assault stay in the grey area were SW can still only be effective in 6v6 or 1v1 fights (still useless in oRvR/City fights).

There are still many changes to do before SW become a balanced and effective ranged class.

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