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Notable issues from Patch

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Klesko
Posts: 67

Notable issues from Patch

Post#1 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:21 am

Quick post to bring attention to recent changes that might need further attention/evaluation:

Glass Arrow is giving massive bump in AP costs to DoT abilities (60% increase on Broadhead Arrow for example) while not actually adding any damage to those abilities whatsoever.

A Festering Arrow shot while buffed with Vengeance of Nagarythe should be undefendable but it is currently being dodged by the opposition.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#2 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:01 am

The glass arrow drawback is intended, dots don't apply bonus damage, but having Glass Arrow active will increase the AP cost of it. You will notice the same drawback while using Glass Arrow with Shadow Sting. It's a toggle buff, there's a choice to swap it off to conserve AP, particularly if you need to apply BHA or SS. Or compensate for the increased costs in other ways, like using Hunter's Fervor before you start a rotation on a target.
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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#3 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:15 am

wargrimnir wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:01 am The glass arrow drawback is intended, dots don't apply bonus damage, but having Glass Arrow active will increase the AP cost of it. You will notice the same drawback while using Glass Arrow with Shadow Sting. It's a toggle buff, there's a choice to swap it off to conserve AP, particularly if you need to apply BHA or SS. Or compensate for the increased costs in other ways, like using Hunter's Fervor before you start a rotation on a target.
Except it also increases Hunter's Fervor's cost too, unless this is "an intended drawback".
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wargrimnir
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Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#4 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:40 am

Manatikik wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:15 am
wargrimnir wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:01 am The glass arrow drawback is intended, dots don't apply bonus damage, but having Glass Arrow active will increase the AP cost of it. You will notice the same drawback while using Glass Arrow with Shadow Sting. It's a toggle buff, there's a choice to swap it off to conserve AP, particularly if you need to apply BHA or SS. Or compensate for the increased costs in other ways, like using Hunter's Fervor before you start a rotation on a target.
Except it also increases Hunter's Fervor's cost too, unless this is "an intended drawback".
Neat.
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Arthem
Posts: 253

Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#5 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:48 am

You can toggle it on and off plus its giving a nice boost to dmg so the AP drawback is needed. You can apply dots + hunters then toggle on.

Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#6 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:40 am

That it can be toggled on/off was never in question or doubt... That the AP drawback is needed and is a well intentioned counterbalance was never in question or doubt...

This suggestion that toggling it on and off for applying dots does deserve a bit of scrutiny, however.
For starters, GA is on a 5s CD, meaning resting on your laurels waiting to toggle it back on, completely compromises your rotation in any situation where there's an enemy healer within a mile of the combat. We can't reasonably discuss it as an on-demand ability with that kind of handcuffs on it.

2nd, it eats up a good chunk of your already taxed resources (thanks to this baby). That's 30AP for those of you keeping count at home, just to toggle it. Or in other words, 6 ticks of the revamped Hunter's Fervor that's been suggested in this thread's sample combat sequence.

There's already stance dancing and rotations to be managed. To throw in Glass Arrow toggle (on a GCD delay, no less!) is beyond tedium. It creates counter intuitive game play, losing you GCDs, AP (in large quantities), and your killing potential as you're either delaying blowing your CD's for glass arrow to come off it's 5s CD or proceeding your sequence without glass arrow as it counts off its toggle CD (all in the sake of saving the AP that is more or less a wash by the cost of the toggle itself).

For the quick and dirty math, you'd have to use 2 abilities (GA toggled off) just to break even with the activation cost of toggling GA back on. You'd have to go through a minimum of 3 abilities just to even have the slightest bit of incentive to toggle it off in the name of saving AP, so let's keep that in mind as these suggestions fly in of GA being a flexible toggle at a whim ability...

Okay, if we can proceed with this discourse summarily dismissing the idea of glass arrow being an ability to be constantly toggled on/off throughout combat, both for its excessive AP cost that wipes out the benefit of temporarily dismissing it as well as because of the heavily tiresome and cumbersome game play it would create, let's look at the disastrous collateral that, to be perfectly frank, absolutely baffles me was even conceptualized, let alone brought to bear through implementation.

Here are abilities "glass arrows costed" that gain absolutely no benefit from glass arrow:
Broadhead Arrow (40AP)
Shadow Sting (45AP)
VoN (50AP)
Assault/Scout/Skirmish Stance (15AP -- that's right, it costs you AP to swap stances now)
Hunter's Fervor (40AP)
Distracting Shot (35AP)
The entire suite of Assault abilities (Yup, you get +15AP cost on any melee ability you've got, but no added glass arrow damage. Want to swap to Assault to disarm the meatball that jumped on you? That's gonna be a 15 tax for the swap and another 15 tax for Opportunistic Strike. If you proceed going full ham melee mode all the sudden, then I finally see an argument for actually toggling GA...)
Flee (15AP, yup, you can't activate flee if you happen to be out of AP, which with GA toggle is very likely to be the case)
Whirling Pin (15AP)

Put together any rotation for a Scout SW...
Bread and butter abilities include BHA, SS, toss in a VoN, EE, a rapid fire and a Fell the Weak
40 + 45 + 50 + 55 + 120 + 50 = 370AP. Compare that rotation to any other class and their costs. Or better yet, look how much damage another dps could do with 370AP expenditure.
Bear in mind, only the EE, the rapid fire ticks, and Fell the Weak actually gained any benefit from GA. That's 120AP tax or 48% increase in cost.
A logical implementation only increasing relevant abilities would see a much more reasonable (and manageable!) 75ap tax or 30% increase in cost.

Here's where I get to the juicy part. Scout has always been an AP intensive spec (Hello Eagle Eye!), at one point having the benefit of a 35% ap reducing tactic for its path abilities.
Insert Guerrilla Training revamp: 25% reduction in ability costs for 5s following a stance change.
Not only do we have a lesser reduction (on an increased cost suite of abilities across-the-board), but we are taxed on this as well!!! It costs 15AP each time to swap stances to get the AP reduction benefit. Again a wash!
Guerrilla Training and Glass Arrow do not play well together at all, requiring very frequent stance swapping to keep the tactic benefit going, all the while eating more and more frequent 15AP taxes just for the benefit to do so.

While the new changes were seemingly innovative, sussing out what was actually packaged together here leaves one completely and utterly baffled.

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Valarion
Posts: 390

Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#7 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:43 pm

In case this hasnt been reported or fixed already: The proposed changes to the Powerful Draw tactic (+50% range) has not been implemented and is now stacking with the range increases (+35%) to Eagle shot that were implemented.

Ranged KD is now 150%? which lets be honest isnt very fun right now.

I've got serious reservations with the other adjustments to the skirmisher tree or why there wasnt also a nerf to the assault tree, but I think Im just going to wait a week before posting my full opinion here.
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Moert
Posts: 15

Re: Notable issues from Patch

Post#8 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:39 pm

Some things I've noticed on my Shadow Warrior:

1) Vengeance isn't usable while moving anymore. I have to stand still to use the ability. I don't know if this is intentional but it seems weird if it is, since it's an instant cast ability.

2) Eye shots tooltip implies that you should be able to move while casting it but you can't. I guess it's intentional that you can't move while casting and the tooltip needs to be changed.

3) Sometimes Broadhead Arrow can't be used on the oil in keep sieges, I don't know why.

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