[AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

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Bozzax
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#21 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am

I think it safe to say ALL players would do better on a WP.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Bozzax
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#22 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:18 am

Cimba wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:06 pm
Surviability is not the issue of the class. If you want to fix AM - fix the mechanic to actually do something. Or create abilities that work of the mechanic.
What would you suggest?
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Nekkma
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#23 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:39 am

Bozzax wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am
I think it safe to say ALL players would do better on a WP.
Perhaps yes, but the difefrence between an avarage player on an am and wp is much larger than and really good player on wp or am.
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Arbich
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#24 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:17 am

Give extra disrupt strikethrough for every tranquility point, to make the silence more reliable.

Walk between worlds is fine. actually one of the strong AM tools.

Problem with the actual mechanic is, that it is quite useful with Echo of Vaul, has some use as dps AM and is apart from that ignored.

A button to change tranq stacks to force stacks (without global cooldown) sounds good. But will also buff dps AM (which is fine as it is).
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EsthelielSunfury
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#25 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:41 am

Cimba wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:06 am
Starx wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:36 am
AM is the squishiest healer in the game, and has the absolute worse time healing under pressure. Any good shotcaller in city or 6man backline group MA is always just going for AM's first because of this, not to mention you want insta res out of the equation ASAP. Shaman isn't nearly as soft a target as AM (maybe thats why WL had the only pounce to begin with :shrug:).

Maybe surviviblity isnt the issue, but uh do tell me where exactly AM is overperforming to make up for being as soft and high priority target as it is.

Best burst healer in the game. Best snare in the game outside of morale. Morale pump. Insane AP drain. Incoming healdebuff if you want. Decent strength/int/bal and thoughness debuff. Personally not a fan of insta rez but well.
I mean true, if you cant play under pressure AM is not a class for you. But other than that is offers a lot.
Are you counting Focused Mind + vanq 6 piece proc for burst healing? If that's the case you won't have that every single start of the engagement. It's really good, but also requires very specific situations - postern pushes come to mind, really great there.

You mentioned a lot of stuff, but no healer or designated morale pumper has any GCD to spare for casting most of what you listed there and neither do any of them help you doing your role better.

With the way single target pump is setup, you're working off borrowed time already and casting weird debuffs can be the difference between not having the morale your warband needs in time or not, which in any equally skilled fight means a wipe since Destro has morale advantage. And assuming the opposition is again, not completely clueless, you will be the first one being trained because of how squishy you are. Knockdown into dead is pretty common and it's really annoying even when trying to find a good position.

Having better uptime on AoE detaunt would help for certain, but I would personally prefer the class mechanic being changed into anything. As it is now, I never look at it once and it only helps casting EoV faster.

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wargrimnir
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Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#26 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:10 pm

Cimba wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:06 pm
Surviability is not the issue of the class. If you want to fix AM - fix the mechanic to actually do something. Or create abilities that work of the mechanic.
This is very much missing and intended.
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Bozzax
Posts: 2088

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#27 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:09 pm

Nekkma wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:39 am
Bozzax wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am
I think it safe to say ALL players would do better on a WP.
Perhaps yes, but the difefrence between an avarage player on an am and wp is much larger than and really good player on wp or am.
Yep, more forgiving (100% uptime detaunt, heavy armour) and is 80% effective even if you only rotate aoe hot, gro clns, aoe heal spam and do some basic positioning and resource management
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

Cimba
Posts: 306

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#28 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:55 pm

Nekkma wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:23 am
I can stand by that statement in isolation but not when we have dok/wp. AM is a high risk/reward type of class. High reward comes with high skill. The vast majority of players would do better on WP wich provides high reward for low risk. If I pull a number out of my ass, it feels like 95 % of AMs dies instantly when destro melee train goes their way (knockdown and dead). Given the high risk, the reward could for sure be greater.
Bozzax wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am
I think it safe to say ALL players would do better on a WP.

Sov sets changed a lot of things and it still remains to be seen how the balance looks like when full sov groups face off against each others. I believe AM will pull ahead, at least in organized 6on6. Other people will stick to WP/DOK. We will see.
Arbich wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:17 am
Give extra disrupt strikethrough for every tranquility point, to make the silence more reliable.

Walk between worlds is fine. actually one of the strong AM tools.

Problem with the actual mechanic is, that it is quite useful with Echo of Vaul, has some use as dps AM and is apart from that ignored.

A button to change tranq stacks to force stacks (without global cooldown) sounds good. But will also buff dps AM (which is fine as it is).

Yeah Echo of Vaul is currently the only usefull ability that uses tranq stacks on a heal AM. Potent with WW. Otherwise okayish.

EsthelielSunfury wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:41 am
Are you counting Focused Mind + vanq 6 piece proc for burst healing? If that's the case you won't have that every single start of the engagement. It's really good, but also requires very specific situations - postern pushes come to mind, really great there.

You mentioned a lot of stuff, but no healer or designated morale pumper has any GCD to spare for casting most of what you listed there and neither do any of them help you doing your role better.

With the way single target pump is setup, you're working off borrowed time already and casting weird debuffs can be the difference between not having the morale your warband needs in time or not, which in any equally skilled fight means a wipe since Destro has morale advantage. And assuming the opposition is again, not completely clueless, you will be the first one being trained because of how squishy you are. Knockdown into dead is pretty common and it's really annoying even when trying to find a good position.

Having better uptime on AoE detaunt would help for certain, but I would personally prefer the class mechanic being changed into anything. As it is now, I never look at it once and it only helps casting EoV faster.

I have agree to some extend. Its not that I am significantly squishier than a RP but the 'expacation' is that I am. Which leads to constantly having WE on my butt. That in turn of course requires GCDs to deal with that are not used healing the group. So it becomes a kind of self fullfilling prophecy that AM underperform in WB settings.

In general I'm more versed in 6on6 than in WB fights. For WB scale fights AM might very well be worse than the others. I dont know. In 6on6 you have time for sure to do all the things mentioned earlier. Even though the morale pump might be the single most important reason AM got a spot in 6on6 scale fights.

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:10 pm
Cimba wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:06 pm
Surviability is not the issue of the class. If you want to fix AM - fix the mechanic to actually do something. Or create abilities that work of the mechanic.
This is very much missing and intended.

I am sorry but thats too cryptic for my non-native speaking ass. Could you clarify?

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Kloaner
Posts: 23

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#29 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:17 pm

Spoiler:
Sulorie wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:11 pm


I have not verified it but according to buffhead the aoe detaunt already has 10sec duration, only the setback immunity is 5sec. Afaik on live both were 5sec and it smells like a ninja change.
For shaman detaunt and buff both have 10sec duration but their buff is worse, therefore only 5 sec for AM buff.
https://imgur.com/a/dQl05v9

so you have 5 Sec downtime
AM/RP

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EsthelielSunfury
Posts: 106

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#30 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:03 pm

Kloaner wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:17 pm
Spoiler:
Sulorie wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:11 pm


I have not verified it but according to buffhead the aoe detaunt already has 10sec duration, only the setback immunity is 5sec. Afaik on live both were 5sec and it smells like a ninja change.
For shaman detaunt and buff both have 10sec duration but their buff is worse, therefore only 5 sec for AM buff.
https://imgur.com/a/dQl05v9

so you have 5 Sec downtime
That's very nice to know, thanks. Will be nice trying RBW tactic at some point with enough willpower from better gear.

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