Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

[Zxul]

Spoiler:

1) Here is the thing, if, considering that all mara's CDs (m1, charge, snare remover, pull) are longer then your CDs (snare, ranged KD, detaunt), you still have a problem, it just means you have no idea how to play your class. Which you prove more and more with every post.

3) Shroud of Magnus and FoF/Ensnare are not comparable. A 7 sec immunity to one damage type is nothing special in RoR. In fact, dealing with Confusing Movements is absolutely standard when kiting. So yes, Confusing Movements is fine. FoF/Ensnare, however, are not.

2) Time to teach you some more game mechanics. Shroud of Magnus is not just a "immunity to one damage type", it is also immunity to sorc's disarm and root- putting sorc in same position as your sw while FoF is on, but with major differences that wh unlike mara starts the fight in melee range, and that sorc has no way to regain range to kite once Shroud is over (unlike mara wh also has a ranged snare).

4) Oh, we almost had a normal discussion but then you had to go mud-throwing like a toddler. Good job! If this topic doesn't sound reasonable to you, I don't know what to tell you. Get an education?

3) This topic isn't reasonable since reading it, there are only two options:

1. You don't have any idea about game mechanics, your class, and other classes.
2. You made this topic to troll.

1) "Blabla, you are just bad at your class! Blabla." Mighty interesting. If you drop the personal insults, maybe this will someday turn into a productive exchange of ideas? I don't know what you're trying to prove with your attitude. I think I'm fairly decent at my class. I also don't think your arguments offer any justification for a 10 sec 65ft unbreakable snare that is also a ~1k nuke. It needs a change, a fix. It doesn't have to be completely removed.

There is no productive exchange here- either you have no idea about the game, in which case you really should stop trying to exchange your ideas and thank the people here for education which they are giving you, or you are trolling this entire thread. And if you don't know how to effectively use your class's tools, then yes you suck at your class.

And my argument is that MoM is very balanced vs sw, as such there is no reason for a change. If it helps, mara actually is a pretty easy fight for you- I massacre ranged sws on any class which I play (hybrid dok, toughness magus, hybrid snb chosen).

2) I don't know why you're pulling WHs and Sorcs into this discussion, derailing it even further. Make a separate thread. If the 7 second immunity is such an issue for you, maybe it's time I teach you something about game mechanics, huh?

You somehow seems to forget to mention that you posted about wh and sorc first, and I replied to you. And its an issue for sorc, not for classes which I play.

However feel free to enlighten us for would you deal with Shroud, if you were playing sorc, since according to you it isn't an issue for sorc.

3) More personal insults. You're really getting there buddy, keep trying!

Pointing finger and laughing isn't insults, its using you as forums comic relief.

[Foofmonger]

This is kind of on the list for potential change in the distant future. It was talked about in the now mostly abandoned tank Morale overhaul thread.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=33236#p374067

M1 - Rock Clutch

Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented

When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.

I would support this change! Making the root unbreakable will establish the ability as a more solid choice for group play, whereas the reduction in duration and range make it less powerful (but still powerful enough) in 1v1/small-scale fights.

Perhaps the option of buffing the IB's Rock Clutch to be on par with the unnerfed Mara/WL M1, but moving them all to M2 so they can be countered with Focused Mind is also worth considering.

So you want them all nerfed in both range and put to M2? Jesus christ man, do you just want them to delete the ability from the game?

Nerfing to 30ft range is enough of a nerf, anything further is just ridiculous. So no, they aren't going to also move it to M2, so silly.

Also, moving it to M2 would mean that they would need to move something else to M1 to accommodate for the swaps. You want Great Fang as the Marauder M1? I'll take it! That's the only unique Marauder M2, so moving any other Marauder M2 requires them to re-balance and redo- the morales of every single MDPS class in the game, all for your "random change cause you can't kite goods".

So, you didn't even think your suggestion out, because moving FOF to M2 means moving Great Fang to M1, or redoing the entire MDPS morale system. That's actually a huge huge huge buff for Marauders (unless you also suggest nerfing Great Fang, which just means you gutted all of the Marauders Morales, nice job at "balance".

No, just no. Cutting the range in half is plenty. What you are asking for is nonsense.

[Battlefield]

Let' s nerf Marauder 's Terrible Embrance (pull) to 30ft also

[Caduceus]

This is kind of on the list for potential change in the distant future. It was talked about in the now mostly abandoned tank Morale overhaul thread.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=33236#p374067

I would support this change! Making the root unbreakable will establish the ability as a more solid choice for group play, whereas the reduction in duration and range make it less powerful (but still powerful enough) in 1v1/small-scale fights.

Perhaps the option of buffing the IB's Rock Clutch to be on par with the unnerfed Mara/WL M1, but moving them all to M2 so they can be countered with Focused Mind is also worth considering.

So you want them all nerfed in both range and put to M2? Jesus christ man, do you just want them to delete the ability from the game?

Nerfing to 30ft range is enough of a nerf, anything further is just ridiculous. So no, they aren't going to also move it to M2, so silly.

Also, moving it to M2 would mean that they would need to move something else to M1 to accommodate for the swaps. You want Great Fang as the Marauder M1? I'll take it! That's the only unique Marauder M2, so moving any other Marauder M2 requires them to re-balance and redo- the morales of every single MDPS class in the game, all for your "random change cause you can't kite goods".

So, you didn't even think your suggestion out, because moving FOF to M2 means moving Great Fang to M1, or redoing the entire MDPS morale system. That's actually a huge huge huge buff for Marauders (unless you also suggest nerfing Great Fang, which just means you gutted all of the Marauders Morales, nice job at "balance".

No, just no. Cutting the range in half is plenty. What you are asking for is nonsense.

Can you chill? I suggested it as an alternative, not an addition.

[Caduceus]

Spoiler:

1) Here is the thing, if, considering that all mara's CDs (m1, charge, snare remover, pull) are longer then your CDs (snare, ranged KD, detaunt), you still have a problem, it just means you have no idea how to play your class. Which you prove more and more with every post.



2) Time to teach you some more game mechanics. Shroud of Magnus is not just a "immunity to one damage type", it is also immunity to sorc's disarm and root- putting sorc in same position as your sw while FoF is on, but with major differences that wh unlike mara starts the fight in melee range, and that sorc has no way to regain range to kite once Shroud is over (unlike mara wh also has a ranged snare).



3) This topic isn't reasonable since reading it, there are only two options:

1. You don't have any idea about game mechanics, your class, and other classes.
2. You made this topic to troll.

1) "Blabla, you are just bad at your class! Blabla." Mighty interesting. If you drop the personal insults, maybe this will someday turn into a productive exchange of ideas? I don't know what you're trying to prove with your attitude. I think I'm fairly decent at my class. I also don't think your arguments offer any justification for a 10 sec 65ft unbreakable snare that is also a ~1k nuke. It needs a change, a fix. It doesn't have to be completely removed.

There is no productive exchange here- either you have no idea about the game, in which case you really should stop trying to exchange your ideas and thank the people here for education which they are giving you, or you are trolling this entire thread. And if you don't know how to effectively use your class's tools, then yes you suck at your class.

And my argument is that MoM is very balanced vs sw, as such there is no reason for a change. If it helps, mara actually is a pretty easy fight for you- I massacre ranged sws on any class which I play (hybrid dok, toughness magus, hybrid snb chosen).

2) I don't know why you're pulling WHs and Sorcs into this discussion, derailing it even further. Make a separate thread. If the 7 second immunity is such an issue for you, maybe it's time I teach you something about game mechanics, huh?

You somehow seems to forget to mention that you posted about wh and sorc first, and I replied to you. And its an issue for sorc, not for classes which I play.

However feel free to enlighten us for would you deal with Shroud, if you were playing sorc, since according to you it isn't an issue for sorc.

3) More personal insults. You're really getting there buddy, keep trying!

Pointing finger and laughing isn't insults, its using you as forums comic relief.

Nice, toddler-level reply there, buddy. 10/10.

[Pandastyle]

80 % of all the time the pull is a joke...anyone who knows their **** is just bunnyhopping when they realise they get "pulled" and the pull is broken and on a 30sec CD. So that is not a really good argument there...
While we are on the topic of Mara vs (a)SW (how did we get here lol?)
Can we get a 25 % dmg boost for 10 secs on a 30sec CD like the SW instead of 60 sec CD (which we have to specc into) maybe?

PS: Dont take me too serious pls lol

[Darks63]

Just be grateful it can be broken by ability snarebreakers since its a morale.

Ranged dps have no snarebreakers other than Focused Mind, which is an M2. Flames of Fate/Ensnare are M1.

I know but mdps and tanks can break it to escape rather easily

[wachlarz]

This is kind of on the list for potential change in the distant future. It was talked about in the now mostly abandoned tank Morale overhaul thread.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=33236#p374067

M1 - Rock Clutch

Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented

When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.

If U want mirror Wl and Mara root. Its less nerf for wl then a mara. Wl have pounce, mara not. We should look at each class separately.

[Foofmonger]

I would support this change! Making the root unbreakable will establish the ability as a more solid choice for group play, whereas the reduction in duration and range make it less powerful (but still powerful enough) in 1v1/small-scale fights.

Perhaps the option of buffing the IB's Rock Clutch to be on par with the unnerfed Mara/WL M1, but moving them all to M2 so they can be countered with Focused Mind is also worth considering.

So you want them all nerfed in both range and put to M2? Jesus christ man, do you just want them to delete the ability from the game?

Nerfing to 30ft range is enough of a nerf, anything further is just ridiculous. So no, they aren't going to also move it to M2, so silly.

Also, moving it to M2 would mean that they would need to move something else to M1 to accommodate for the swaps. You want Great Fang as the Marauder M1? I'll take it! That's the only unique Marauder M2, so moving any other Marauder M2 requires them to re-balance and redo- the morales of every single MDPS class in the game, all for your "random change cause you can't kite goods".

So, you didn't even think your suggestion out, because moving FOF to M2 means moving Great Fang to M1, or redoing the entire MDPS morale system. That's actually a huge huge huge buff for Marauders (unless you also suggest nerfing Great Fang, which just means you gutted all of the Marauders Morales, nice job at "balance".

No, just no. Cutting the range in half is plenty. What you are asking for is nonsense.

Can you chill? I suggested it as an alternative, not an addition.

I can chill, and I must have read your post wrong. I apologize.

I actually think the 30ft range is preferable for your argument over the M2. As I stated, moving FOF to M2 creates a huge host of problems in rebalancing the entire MDPS morales as a whole, so it would also be a pain in the butt for the devs. Sure, you can't counter it with focused mind, but you can counter it with "staying out of 30ft range", which still allows for a fair amount of counterplay.

[Foofmonger]

Let' s nerf Marauder 's Terrible Embrance (pull) to 30ft also

They already did that though. Try pulling anywhere over 30ft away, ever lol.

Mara pull is great though, it's a fantastic 5 second knockdown, as that's the only use it has at the moment. It's less of a "pull" and more of a "I float you up 20 feet in the air while you get focused and all your friends watch you die".