Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

[Caduceus]

Lets see now. Whirling Pen gets you out of melee range, and puts same 40% snare on mara as mara got on you, except that mara snare is melee range so he can't renew it. Pull is 2 sec cast, and can be disrupted. Sprint +AP pot is something sw can use as well (and good sws used on live). Snarebreak is wasted getting to you.

So we are back to mara root being very survivable, and you wanting maras to be a free kill for kiters.

Whirling Pen will rarely get you out of melee range, since the snare will be applied with a delay and the self-punt is extremely unreliable.

If there is a bug with Whirling Pen's self punt, feel free to open ticket at bugtracker.

2 sec cast time obviously is no argument; SW cannot interrupt spells except with ranged knockdown/silence which are on a cooldown and cause immunity.

1) 2 sec cast time is an argument since if sw gets out of range during those 2 sec, the pull fails. And as for cooldown/immunity, pull has a cooldown of 30 sec as well.

So nothing that justifies 65ft range 10sec champion's challenge that does a nuke has been provided.

2) Actually it was, you just chose to ignore it since you want the "I win" button vs melee.

1) Perhaps if the SW gets out of range in the first 0.5s of the cast. When the spell is halfway in, it will almost always go off. This goes for every class. Not sure if this is lag or working as intended. Anyhow, pull does not share a cooldown/immunity with any of the Marauder's other tools I listed. 2 sec cast on Pull seems fine.

2) Blabla.

[Caduceus]

are you talking about 1on1 or grp play ?

1:1
you've hit mara from far until M1. let's say 70% hp. now mara used M1 got melee range. you M1 punt. let's say 50% hp when mara got melee range 2nd time.
you got disarm or stun. let's say 40% hp.
so final stage is 40% melee vs 8~90% range in melee fight.
all numbers are just example.

Somewhat accurate, however when in melee the ranged dps will have burned most of their CDs (like VotN) and AP. Also, this is when the Mara can start CCing/debuffing and selfhealing. Even when the mdps is quite damaged when the melee starts, there's no way a ranged dps will be able to outburst them in this situation. After the first 3 sec CC ranged dps will be at 50% as well, and the fight is over fast.

Fights also rarely start at max range (unless rdps sets up the fight perfectly), and usually there is some LoSing by the mdps which can greatly reduce the range at which the engagement starts.

[Battlefield]

1) First of all needed to start from Mara's pull and it is broken or bugged now but WL pet's pull not..... 2) btw what about SW' range knockdown is to be also nerfed too? 3) I think u dont understand that Marauder made versus range dps and he should do them as WL (but wl is stronger against them)!

1) The pull is fine, since there is no 10(!!!) sec root attached to it.

2) SW ranged knockdown is fine. In fact, it's the only thing that makes ranged SW viable in its current state.

3) This is nonsense, no matter what perspective you take.

From a 1v1 perspective, there's no reason one class should completely negate the other. That's bad balancing, even in a game that is supposedly 'balanced around group pvp'.

Furthermore, from a group perspective ranged snaring should not be the job of mdps, but rdps. That's how synergy is created between classes and what makes group pvp interesting. If one needs strong ranged snaring abilities in their party, they should get a ranged SH or SW, because that's their speciality. If you're going to argue that Marauder should be potent at ranged snaring, then please put their dps on par with ranged SW as well.

If destro ranged classes run into the same issue against WLs, they should change WL as well.

Reapet Mara's pull is working not correctly as it was before and Mara should do range dps cause Mara made for it! If Sw ranged knockdown fine so give it to SH too because ranged SH versus WL has no any chance almost even SW has much more chance versus Mara to do him!

[Caduceus]

Reapet Mara's pull is working not correctly as it was before and Mara should do range dps cause Mara made for it! If Sw ranged knockdown fine so give it to SH too because ranged SH versus WL has no any chance almost even SW has much more chance versus Mara to do him!

Ok, lets stay serious here.

SH has the best tactic for kiters in the game, RUN AWAY! And they get it for free.

But sure. Remove that tactic and replace it with a 3 sec 65ft knockdown. That'd be totally fine. Tactic and knockdown? Mm... Don't think so.

[saupreusse]

are you talking about 1on1 or grp play ?

1:1
you've hit mara from far until M1. let's say 70% hp. now mara used M1 got melee range. you M1 punt. let's say 50% hp when mara got melee range 2nd time.
you got disarm or stun. let's say 40% hp.
so final stage is 40% melee vs 8~90% range in melee fight.
all numbers are just example.

now BW have burst. SW have armor buff.
engie have turret stack.
many other variables will effect numbers.

see how range vs melee work?
range got upper hand at first, later melee got it, final round is low hp death match.
in theory.

seems you assumed 1:1 start at melee range.

grp
guard heal.

mass orvr
everything can be happen. though I think melee are better at open field, range at keep. if tanks make enough wall...

I think this m1 is 1:1 skill, little use among entire scales.
and in 1:1 mara's chance is low without it.

Youre wrong. We usually use it in smallscale to get reliable dmg on the kiting squishies like zeal, squigger or sham.

[Zxul]

Whirling Pen will rarely get you out of melee range, since the snare will be applied with a delay and the self-punt is extremely unreliable.

If there is a bug with Whirling Pen's self punt, feel free to open ticket at bugtracker.

2 sec cast time obviously is no argument; SW cannot interrupt spells except with ranged knockdown/silence which are on a cooldown and cause immunity.

1) 2 sec cast time is an argument since if sw gets out of range during those 2 sec, the pull fails. And as for cooldown/immunity, pull has a cooldown of 30 sec as well.

So nothing that justifies 65ft range 10sec champion's challenge that does a nuke has been provided.

2) Actually it was, you just chose to ignore it since you want the "I win" button vs melee.

1) Perhaps if the SW gets out of range in the first 0.5s of the cast. When the spell is halfway in, it will almost always go off. This goes for every class. Not sure if this is lag or working as intended. Anyhow, pull does not share a cooldown/immunity with any of the Marauder's other tools I listed. 2 sec cast on Pull seems fine.

2) Blabla.

1. Mara pull got fixed (nerfed) a few patches ago so it doesn't goes off if target is out of range. And you got a reply to what you said about other tools.
2. Whine more.

[saupreusse]

I dont get how this turned into a rsw vs mara thread when this should be a ensnare/fof thread. Good derail.

[Caduceus]

1. Mara pull got fixed (nerfed) a few patches ago so it doesn't goes off if target is out of range. And you got a reply to what you said about other tools.

It's still plenty powerful, so that doesn't change a thing. That's also not a nerf, but a bugfix. Mara has plenty of tools to deal with rdps. Pull is one of them. Choppa lacks Flames of Fate and the match-up is a lot more balanced.

In other words, there's no reason FoF should be as powerful as it is, and it is clearly due for a change or other ranged classes need to be given tools to play around it.

[Zxul]

1. Mara pull got fixed (nerfed) a few patches ago so it doesn't goes off if target is out of range. And you got a reply to what you said about other tools.

It's still plenty powerful, so that doesn't change a thing. That's also not a nerf, but a bugfix. Mara has plenty of tools to deal with rdps. Pull is one of them. Choppa lacks Flames of Fate and the match-up is a lot more balanced.

In other words, there's no reason FoF should be as powerful as it is, and it is clearly due for a change or other ranged classes need to be given tools to play around it.

So we are back at "sw has ways to counter mara tools, but you want the "I win" button". Also, you just admitted that mara pull doesn't works the way you said it works 2 posts ago. Also, choppa has his own tools, starting with gtdc.

In other words, now you are trying to change it to choppa vs sw, while claiming that FoF is too powerful without having any actual arguments.

[Battlefield]

after changes problem is if Mara's pull failed it goes to cooldown anyway (ofc exept parry) or other words if target ran away from it WL has no such issue