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Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

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adamthelc
Posts: 827

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#81 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:12 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:48 am
adamthelc wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 3:32 am
1) I dont agree that its obvious it needs to be fixed. Its an anti kiting tool, that doesn't seem that crazy.

2) The problem with this game is that it wasn't originally designed with so much anti kiting tools in mind. Rdps don't really have kits to fight it effectively. Too many gap closers, not enough gap makers.

They should really consider adding stuff like blinks or teleports on rdps. I am not a huge fan of that, since it's very different than the original game. But if you are going to tinker with the original game you have to be prepared to fix the issues your tinkering causes.

3) So by itself I dont think these M1 are a huge problem, but they are a part of a greater problem. Which is out of date kiting tools vs more up to date gap closers/antikiting tools.
1) How is a 65ft range 10 sec unbreakable root (for most ranged dps) that also does a 1k nuke not crazy?

2) I disagree, at least from the perspective of ranged SW. Most match-ups feel surprisingly balanced, where timing makes all the difference. I need to know what abilities my opponents have and how they work. I like that. It feels fair and skill-based.

3) Well, I see a problem with this M1 specifically, but perhaps there are multiple solutions to the problem. I'm not saying it should necessarily be nerfed, but the imbalance it creates needs to be fixed. This can also be fixed by giving SW a tool to deal with it, which I did in my original post. Make SW M1 'Lileath's Forgiveness' break roots.
Alright so you are only concerned with 1v1 on a SW apparently. Balancing the game based on such a narrow viewpoint would be terrible.

Is the morale in question too strong? Maybe. Its definitely not a given. I have the ability used on me in a scenario or a wb and it didn't really accomplish all that much.

When a WH ganks my sorc and pops shroud of magnus, that can definitely feel like an I win button. Does that mean its a crazy broken for sure OP ability? No.

You could have made this a reasonable topic about a real issue. Instead you just want to cry because your class has bad match up against another class in part of the game that isnt supposed to be balanced. Good Job!

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Caduceus
Posts: 56

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#82 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:15 pm

Hugatsaga wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm
snip

Another post without anything but personal attacks. When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser.

Hugatsaga wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm
There you go, another bump, you're welcome.

Thanks.

Caduceus
Posts: 56

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#83 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm

adamthelc wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:12 pm


1) Alright so you are only concerned with 1v1 on a SW apparently. Balancing the game based on such a narrow viewpoint would be terrible.

2) Is the morale in question too strong? Maybe. Its definitely not a given. I have the ability used on me in a scenario or a wb and it didn't really accomplish all that much.

3) When a WH ganks my sorc and pops shroud of magnus, that can definitely feel like an I win button. Does that mean its a crazy broken for sure OP ability? No.

4) You could have made this a reasonable topic about a real issue. Instead you just want to cry because your class has bad match up against another class in part of the game that isnt supposed to be balanced. Good Job!
1) I play SW, so it is the perspective I have most experience with. But this ability is considered too powerful by many other rdps classes, some of which have also posted in this thread. Secondly, yes I am mostly concerned about this from a 1v1 perspective, because that's where this ability is too powerful. If it was too powerful in another scenario, maybe the post would have been about that?

Just because this game is (supposedly) balanced around group play doesn't mean that unnecessary imbalance in 1v1 cannot or should not be addressed.

2) It doesn't seem to be popular in warbands/scenarios. I see it used in 1v1s almost exclusively. WLs I run with don't use Ensnare at all.

3) Shroud of Magnus and FoF/Ensnare are not comparable. A 7 sec immunity to one damage type is nothing special in RoR. In fact, dealing with Confusing Movements is absolutely standard when kiting. So yes, Confusing Movements is fine. FoF/Ensnare, however, are not.

4) Oh, we almost had a normal discussion but then you had to go mud-throwing like a toddler. Good job! If this topic doesn't sound reasonable to you, I don't know what to tell you. Get an education?

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Hugatsaga
Posts: 63

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#84 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:42 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:15 pm
Hugatsaga wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm
snip

Another post without anything but personal attacks. When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser.

Hugatsaga wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm
There you go, another bump, you're welcome.

Thanks.

I didn't realize you get to label my entire post as personal attacks (including the part where I discuss about indirect effect of balance changes and mobility difference between order and destro) just because I call you out on your lack of knowledge.

This whole thread starts to look more and more like trolling. If thats the case, you got me dude. Well done. My bad for falling for it.
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wargrimnir
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Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#85 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:01 pm

This is kind of on the list for potential change in the distant future. It was talked about in the now mostly abandoned tank Morale overhaul thread.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=33236#p374067
M1 - Rock Clutch

Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented

When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.
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Caduceus
Posts: 56

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#86 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:27 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:01 pm
This is kind of on the list for potential change in the distant future. It was talked about in the now mostly abandoned tank Morale overhaul thread.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=33236#p374067
M1 - Rock Clutch

Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented

When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.
I would support this change! Making the root unbreakable will establish the ability as a more solid choice for group play, whereas the reduction in duration and range make it less powerful (but still powerful enough) in 1v1/small-scale fights.

Perhaps the option of buffing the IB's Rock Clutch to be on par with the unnerfed Mara/WL M1, but moving them all to M2 so they can be countered with Focused Mind is also worth considering.

Zxul
Posts: 751

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#87 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:55 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm
adamthelc wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:12 pm


1) Alright so you are only concerned with 1v1 on a SW apparently. Balancing the game based on such a narrow viewpoint would be terrible.

2) Is the morale in question too strong? Maybe. Its definitely not a given. I have the ability used on me in a scenario or a wb and it didn't really accomplish all that much.

3) When a WH ganks my sorc and pops shroud of magnus, that can definitely feel like an I win button. Does that mean its a crazy broken for sure OP ability? No.

4) You could have made this a reasonable topic about a real issue. Instead you just want to cry because your class has bad match up against another class in part of the game that isnt supposed to be balanced. Good Job!
1) I play SW, so it is the perspective I have most experience with. But this ability is considered too powerful by many other rdps classes, some of which have also posted in this thread. Secondly, yes I am mostly concerned about this from a 1v1 perspective, because that's where this ability is too powerful. If it was too powerful in another scenario, maybe the post would have been about that?
Here is the thing, if, considering that all mara's CDs (m1, charge, snare remover, pull) are longer then your CDs (snare, ranged KD, detaunt), you still have a problem, it just means you have no idea how to play your class. Which you prove more and more with every post.
Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm
3) Shroud of Magnus and FoF/Ensnare are not comparable. A 7 sec immunity to one damage type is nothing special in RoR. In fact, dealing with Confusing Movements is absolutely standard when kiting. So yes, Confusing Movements is fine. FoF/Ensnare, however, are not.
Time to teach you some more game mechanics. Shroud of Magnus is not just a "immunity to one damage type", it is also immunity to sorc's disarm and root- putting sorc in same position as your sw while FoF is on, but with major differences that wh unlike mara starts the fight in melee range, and that sorc has no way to regain range to kite once Shroud is over (unlike mara wh also has a ranged snare).
Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm
4) Oh, we almost had a normal discussion but then you had to go mud-throwing like a toddler. Good job! If this topic doesn't sound reasonable to you, I don't know what to tell you. Get an education?
This topic isn't reasonable since reading it, there are only two options:

1. You don't have any idea about game mechanics, your class, and other classes.
2. You made this topic to troll.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

Caduceus
Posts: 56

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#88 » Tue May 26, 2020 8:23 pm

Zxul wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:55 pm


1) Here is the thing, if, considering that all mara's CDs (m1, charge, snare remover, pull) are longer then your CDs (snare, ranged KD, detaunt), you still have a problem, it just means you have no idea how to play your class. Which you prove more and more with every post.
Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm
3) Shroud of Magnus and FoF/Ensnare are not comparable. A 7 sec immunity to one damage type is nothing special in RoR. In fact, dealing with Confusing Movements is absolutely standard when kiting. So yes, Confusing Movements is fine. FoF/Ensnare, however, are not.
2) Time to teach you some more game mechanics. Shroud of Magnus is not just a "immunity to one damage type", it is also immunity to sorc's disarm and root- putting sorc in same position as your sw while FoF is on, but with major differences that wh unlike mara starts the fight in melee range, and that sorc has no way to regain range to kite once Shroud is over (unlike mara wh also has a ranged snare).
Caduceus wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:30 pm
4) Oh, we almost had a normal discussion but then you had to go mud-throwing like a toddler. Good job! If this topic doesn't sound reasonable to you, I don't know what to tell you. Get an education?
3) This topic isn't reasonable since reading it, there are only two options:

1. You don't have any idea about game mechanics, your class, and other classes.
2. You made this topic to troll.
1) "Blabla, you are just bad at your class! Blabla." Mighty interesting. If you drop the personal insults, maybe this will someday turn into a productive exchange of ideas? I don't know what you're trying to prove with your attitude. I think I'm fairly decent at my class. I also don't think your arguments offer any justification for a 10 sec 65ft unbreakable snare that is also a ~1k nuke. It needs a change, a fix. It doesn't have to be completely removed.

2) I don't know why you're pulling WHs and Sorcs into this discussion, derailing it even further. Make a separate thread. If the 7 second immunity is such an issue for you, maybe it's time I teach you something about game mechanics, huh? :lol:

3) More personal insults. You're really getting there buddy, keep trying!

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Fey
Posts: 499

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#89 » Tue May 26, 2020 8:34 pm

30 or 40 foot 5 second root sounds good. This can make for solid coordination as tank punts guard and then the mdps can root them in place. Even a small punt could work in such a situation.
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toffikx
Posts: 279

Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'

Post#90 » Tue May 26, 2020 8:42 pm

Is this the best thread for shitposting, at the moment?
Asking for a friend.

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