WhiteLion Damage

[geezereur]

BAHAHAHAH

Quality reply, must be a WL player.
MSH no where near competes in single target deletion vs WL

It can do 85% of the burst of the WL while being much more of a tank and better tools. mSH just don't want to use the pet, which the WL has to use. WL also has to waste a tactic slot on the dumb pet to make it even useful, so WL can only use 3 tactic slots.

85% of the burst? more like 50% and only on really squishy targets.

[sogeou]

Quality reply, must be a WL player.
MSH no where near competes in single target deletion vs WL

It can do 85% of the burst of the WL while being much more of a tank and better tools. mSH just don't want to use the pet, which the WL has to use. WL also has to waste a tactic slot on the dumb pet to make it even useful, so WL can only use 3 tactic slots.

85% of the burst? more like 50% and only on really squishy targets.

I have DPS numbers. Do you have them? How about we both post them? Because I am using facts while you are using your mind.

[Grock]

WL is a good solo 1v1 class with decent aoe, I don't even think they are overpowered, I've never seen a WL out damage a good Choppa or a good mara in a city before, but I guess I haven't been in that many

They have a ridiculous combination of on demand KD, frontloaded burst with multiple overlapping damage sources (pet attacks/abilities + pet-empowering abilites + player attack/skills) and mobility/pounce on top of that
And the damage is spread among two characters so that you can't even CC/Detaunt it properly

That is absolutely not healthy design

Meanwhile every other class is held back by GCD and cast times

add:
mSH is pretty much the same, except their KD is on the player so you can use it immediately after Pounce without having to wait for pet to arrive
and instead of crazy pet damage they get lots of utility with interrupt, disarm, knockbacks, etc

btw does Git 'em still has same numbers as pre-nerf Coordinated Strike?

[mubbl]

It can do 85% of the burst of the WL while being much more of a tank and better tools. mSH just don't want to use the pet, which the WL has to use. WL also has to waste a tactic slot on the dumb pet to make it even useful, so WL can only use 3 tactic slots.

85% of the burst? more like 50% and only on really squishy targets.

I have DPS numbers. Do you have them? How about we both post them? Because I am using facts while you are using your mind.

Reliable facts? Woot, thats new!
May you show them? Cause now its 85% of nothing...

[Grock]

Never played a Marauder, but 24% parry seems way too low. My base parry on my Chosen is 39%, before being buffed by Suppression or Daemonclaw

is that number from paperdoll window? that doesn't sound realistic for a class without dualwield or parry tactics, to get that number you'd literally want to collect every possible gear/jewelry/weapon piece with parry bonus

his numbers do seem low though, just RR + dualwield is already 28%, 50% mitigation is only 2.2k armor, not even armor pot, WL armor debuff takes it down to ~15% mitigation which is nothing

White lion is the most broken op class currently, there's no doubt about it , cant understand why nothing is being done about it...

Not really, I view most of them as easy kills. Hell, here's a couple of screenshots from a double WL kill I got a week or so ago. Was interesting because server lag left them standing in place after the fight.

The problem isn't that WL are overpowered, its that most people don't realize that the key to killing them is just to survive that initial burst and then concentrate damage on the elf, and to ignore the lion.

Dude you are playing chosen, what are you even talking about, their armor debuffs probably don't even take you below armor hard cap and their weaponskil lis like 200
You're probably mitigating 4/5th of their damage or even more, while while facing close to no mitigation yourself because of spirit dmg

Surviving initial burst means nothing unless you have powerful heal-up tool or your plan is just to disengage and avoid further contact.
Its not like WL's normal damage output is zero after the burst, they got the pet, they got buffed DoTs

[teiloh]

WL is a good solo 1v1 class with decent aoe, I don't even think they are overpowered, I've never seen a WL out damage a good Choppa or a good mara in a city before, but I guess I haven't been in that many

Then, if they are balanced 1v1 with the stupidly powerful toolkit they have, remove aoe.

Yes because it's only fair for Destro to have 6 AOE melee and Order to have 2

[Esmeralda]

So I'm an Order main, but decided to take a break for a couple of weeks and made a Destro healer just to get the impression of the other side. Also got the taste of WLs and dude this class is nuts. You just don't experience the same level of wtf on Order side trust me.

[Stelios123]

White Lion - Medium Armor,mobility,gap closer,knock down+root,high single target AND aoe damage!
and then you got **** like Witch Hunters

[phononHYPE]

I'm Dest main and made a WL a few months ago. I have a heavy dose of alt-itis and in general found that for what ever class I play (chosen, magus, zealot, mara, BG, WE, dok, sorc, choppa, shaman, SH - holy cow in reflection that is almost all dest side) I start to feel like I am contributing to any fight at about rr56+. That is usually either full Conq or a few bits of Vanq. The moment my WL hit level 40 (rr 38 at the time) I at least felt like I was not a hindrance, and by rr 44 with 4pc Conq I could successfully solo. rr55 now and I fear nothing. Renown is FS II and full strength, probably not optimal.

As a player against them, you can try to kill the pet but in that 3-5s time you are dead by 1-2s. Pet frenzy (right tree) is what I assume pets have when I get 300-800 hits as choppa in medium armor and green or yellow, so no armor penalty. That large range is of a breadth of WLs, not just one per se. So can't really ignore the pets.

WE jumps a WL that doesn't have on-demand KD? You still have a basic throw to interrupt them and take off a second or two, letting your stand a chance.

Have to spec a talent just to make the "dumb pet" viable and complain about only having 3 tactic choices? That combined pet makes for a significant part of your burst and calling it dumb is ignoring all that it brings - which as a class is a ton.

Their dots were recently buffed to encourage broader play-styles, so all three trees are viable (good for them on that - wish all classes had such options).

They are OP 1v1, they are great in 6v6, they are (aoe) great in city. That leaves WBs, where their aoe is fine and can still threaten a deletion (not just pressure like other dps) some bad positioned or over-extended person OF ANY CLASS. Baring high ranked or geared 2h tanks, they are, at minimum, just fine vs everyone.

There have been enough calls for action, nerfs, balance etc. that to think anything will ever be done is something I have put behind me. At best I can hope for adjustments or balance to other classes to help them, because it ain't comin for WL.

[Duukar]

I've been spamming T3 SCs on my BO to get to 40. So not a lvl 40 experience vs white lions as this is my first destro toon. In my experience they are not OP, but they are strong.

All you need is a smart tank to swap guard, challenge then KD once in range... problem solved.. Sure they hit hard but their mobility with punce takes away their guard and puts their healers in a tough spot.

This usually nets a dead WL, but occasionally they succeed. If they have two WLs working together that creates a bit more of a problem and requires an adjustment. Leaving one tank in the back to protect the backline solves that. One good tank can counter easily two maybe even more. Root, Challenge, Guard, Distracting bellow, KD(not in that order). That can buy more than enough time for some RDPS or even other help to arrive and wipe em out or have em leaping to safety.

Pretty much WLs get focused a lot die quickly due to out pacing their guards and out ranging their heals. A good WL player can make this a totally different story. Thats the same as any class.

They are fine.