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Telen
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Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#111 » Mon May 18, 2020 12:46 am

WL is about the only class keeping order afloat. Just about every other mirror is inferior.
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jokerspsycho
Posts: 246

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#112 » Mon May 18, 2020 12:56 am

Azerreth wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:31 pm

And Mara right now sure as **** doesn't stand up on its own legs, the class is damn near worthless.. WE is far better at doing any of the roles Mara can fill right now.
Followed you until this. U must be high bc ther only WB that stack WEs are pug city WBs bc no one else wants them.

If you think Mara is bad, you've never been on order side for a city.

Aceboltz
Posts: 261

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#113 » Mon May 18, 2020 1:36 am

Telen wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:46 am
WL is about the only class keeping order afloat. Just about every other mirror is inferior.
Wait... does this means sorc is superior to BW now?

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Azerreth
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Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#114 » Mon May 18, 2020 3:44 am

jokerspsycho wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:56 am
Azerreth wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:31 pm

And Mara right now sure as **** doesn't stand up on its own legs, the class is damn near worthless.. WE is far better at doing any of the roles Mara can fill right now.
Followed you until this. U must be high bc ther only WB that stack WEs are pug city WBs bc no one else wants them.

If you think Mara is bad, you've never been on order side for a city.
Nah, Im always on destro getting farmed by secrets lmfao. I've never won one city since I came back, and Im not saying they are "better" in a warband enviorment.. Actually the opposite they are complete **** in a group setting because they have nothing on offer for it. So Like I've said time and again Id rather them have the option to be viable in there at the cost of a bit of their other shenanigans, than have them be regulated to the "meme" spot.

With Mara it's much the reverse, Id love to be worthwhile outside of an AoE machine.. Because the other two specs feel terrible and honestly aren't worth taking unless you wana beat your head against a wall. Thats why almost all mara's focus on monstro and just run the four button/stance into guillotine build. Because.... well its the only part that works well enough to invest in..

Knowthyself
Posts: 84

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#115 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:02 am

Telen wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:46 am
WL is about the only class keeping order afloat. Just about every other mirror is inferior.
I don't know how to react that, rofl or pity..
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Newgit
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Starx
Posts: 279

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#116 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:11 am

Telen wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:46 am
WL is about the only class keeping order afloat. Just about every other mirror is inferior.
slayer
BW

Probably the most disgustingly OP classes in the history of the game. Ya order has a serious problem with a huge population of lepers like engineers/sw and wh but oofers. Almost forgot we also has 10 billion shitty DPS AM's that are useless in city too. There's probably 30 DPS AM's for every DPS shaman.

growill
Posts: 72

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#117 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:46 am

Azerreth wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:31 pm
MMXX43 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:16 pm
amagawd wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:12 pm


Good choppa and good mara probably are AOE spec in cities, so most likely they will top the dmg meters. However, can we compare the kills? I spoke to many rr80+ maras, some single target specced, and they still don't melt people like WL do.

WL is a good burster, not a good 1v1. Because even in cities they jump on the squishies and they kill them quite fast, with heals on them. Or maybe things work differently in cities than in ORVR, statswise. I haven't been in many cities either.

But it's really easy to compare this, especially from a GM/DEV side: full gear a WL and whatever other class u wish to compare and roll it on a ragdoll. I'm quite sure the WL wins every dps race.
then do that with an MSH.
As someone who plays Melee Squig, I can say that while yes we have strong damage and mobility our sustain is weak. So sure we might be able to compete on damage and on mobility but when it comes to staying up in prolonged combat alone against 2 -3 people its not that simple. White lions on the other hand? Can easily 1 v 3 and I've seen them do it multiple times so I feel like it comes down to either they have too much sustain going for them (This includes pots, gotta take that into account as well since its been done for every other class.) Id gladly give them a Proper AoE Warband spec if their other shenanigans can be toned down.

They can have mobility, strong damage and less sustain or have more sustain and less damage? All and all White lion is one of the stronger classes, even as a single target class when compared to the other dps in game. So make them more of a CC/disruption based class? Im not honestly sure how to fix this issue as it just seems to me that their kit is too front loaded, they have too many tools and too much sustain to be a dps as they can be tanky and still get the same results. They don't often require a tank to guard them to preform well and they don't need to run in a party to hunt down players and get good rewards out of their participation (This isn't necessarily a bad thing.) But when you compare them to WE/WH/Mara or MSH/Choppa they are just strictly speaking better with slayer probably being the only one if played well who can really go pound for pound a long side them. Its just too much utility/damage/sustain on one class and honestly I feel the MSH was a good attempt to give us that, but in no way do they match the power of a WL on all fronts.

And Mara right now sure as **** doesn't stand up on its own legs, the class is damn near worthless.. Choppa/MSH/WE is far better at doing any of the roles Mara can fill right now. Which is why I put mine down a while back and moved on and have been leveling other toons on destro. This does need to be addressed but as someone who does NOT want it gutted, nerfed into the ground or unplayable or worse yet to loose its identity as a class Im not sure how we can fix this? The only logical way without sacrificing too much is a damage reduction on their skills, I think like 10-15% would be fine with even that maybe being too much or they could loose a little bit of sustain/defenses? Make it a trade-off not a punishment.
I'm sorry but this is bullshit where the hell do you see burst WL with better sustain than a msh?!
full vanq + genesis you are sitting at 2.3k armor and 7k flat hp if you want to max out str, get 3fs and some crit. With no kind of self heal or def buff whatsiever.

And to the sorc complaining about getting pulled from 80ft and burst down well booyah sorcs can delete an unguarded wl from 100ft in a rotation (ate up a 2500 wop crit yesterday).

Beside i would like to remind AGAIN that its all different specs. Aoe kd and ctw are all on diffetent trees. Aoe wl for wb play doesnt have kd and st burst wl is borderline broken even in 6man as the lion gets melted istantly and you end up sitting 15s with no burst and no cc.

Aceboltz
Posts: 261

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#118 » Mon May 18, 2020 11:15 am

growill wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:46 am

I'm sorry but this is bullshit where the hell do you see burst WL with better sustain than a msh?!
full vanq + genesis you are sitting at 2.3k armor and 7k flat hp if you want to max out str, get 3fs and some crit. With no kind of self heal or def buff whatsiever.

And to the sorc complaining about getting pulled from 80ft and burst down well booyah sorcs can delete an unguarded wl from 100ft in a rotation (ate up a 2500 wop crit yesterday).

Beside i would like to remind AGAIN that its all different specs. Aoe kd and ctw are all on diffetent trees. Aoe wl for wb play doesnt have kd and st burst wl is borderline broken even in 6man as the lion gets melted istantly and you end up sitting 15s with no burst and no cc.
It's funny you say this because WL is precisely one of the classes you just cannot delete usually: the combination of medium defense, 8k+hp with WP buff, lightning speed and huge pressure on sorc makes it so you just cannot solo oneshot a WL in a group/orvr/city environment. Honestly I feel like the single target spec of the sorc is starting to really lag behind.

Also sorc is not just about the big damage number, it's about timestamp, because if we look at damage numbers; well, scout SW has better numbers on a 5sec cooldown spell while sorc's is 10sec cd.

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Asherdoom
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Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#119 » Mon May 18, 2020 1:07 pm

Aceboltz wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:15 am
growill wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:46 am

I'm sorry but this is bullshit where the hell do you see burst WL with better sustain than a msh?!
full vanq + genesis you are sitting at 2.3k armor and 7k flat hp if you want to max out str, get 3fs and some crit. With no kind of self heal or def buff whatsiever.

And to the sorc complaining about getting pulled from 80ft and burst down well booyah sorcs can delete an unguarded wl from 100ft in a rotation (ate up a 2500 wop crit yesterday).

Beside i would like to remind AGAIN that its all different specs. Aoe kd and ctw are all on diffetent trees. Aoe wl for wb play doesnt have kd and st burst wl is borderline broken even in 6man as the lion gets melted istantly and you end up sitting 15s with no burst and no cc.
It's funny you say this because WL is precisely one of the classes you just cannot delete usually: the combination of medium defense, 8k+hp with WP buff, lightning speed and huge pressure on sorc makes it so you just cannot solo oneshot a WL in a group/orvr/city environment. Honestly I feel like the single target spec of the sorc is starting to really lag behind.

Also sorc is not just about the big damage number, it's about timestamp, because if we look at damage numbers; well, scout SW has better numbers on a 5sec cooldown spell while sorc's is 10sec cd.
sorcerer is a trash class in all aspect: no healdebuff no realiable cc no reliable survival tools no medium armor and we suicide ourselves with backslash damage. you are taking into account a class that has been designed to be farmed.
growill wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:46 am

I'm sorry but this is bullshit where the hell do you see burst WL with better sustain than a msh?!
full vanq + genesis you are sitting at 2.3k armor and 7k flat hp if you want to max out str, get 3fs and some crit. With no kind of self heal or def buff whatsiever.

And to the sorc complaining about getting pulled from 80ft and burst down well booyah sorcs can delete an unguarded wl from 100ft in a rotation (ate up a 2500 wop crit yesterday).

Beside i would like to remind AGAIN that its all different specs. Aoe kd and ctw are all on diffetent trees. Aoe wl for wb play doesnt have kd and st burst wl is borderline broken even in 6man as the lion gets melted istantly and you end up sitting 15s with no burst and no cc.
then link me a video of you going solo 1v1 with sorcerer vs WL as seen that you can "delete them" (ofc more or less same gear level i am talking about)
Youtube: Volkyte. Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/volkyte
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growill
Posts: 72

Re: WhiteLion Damage

Post#120 » Mon May 18, 2020 4:57 pm

Aceboltz wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:15 am
growill wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:46 am

I'm sorry but this is bullshit where the hell do you see burst WL with better sustain than a msh?!
full vanq + genesis you are sitting at 2.3k armor and 7k flat hp if you want to max out str, get 3fs and some crit. With no kind of self heal or def buff whatsiever.

And to the sorc complaining about getting pulled from 80ft and burst down well booyah sorcs can delete an unguarded wl from 100ft in a rotation (ate up a 2500 wop crit yesterday).

Beside i would like to remind AGAIN that its all different specs. Aoe kd and ctw are all on diffetent trees. Aoe wl for wb play doesnt have kd and st burst wl is borderline broken even in 6man as the lion gets melted istantly and you end up sitting 15s with no burst and no cc.
It's funny you say this because WL is precisely one of the classes you just cannot delete usually: the combination of medium defense, 8k+hp with WP buff, lightning speed and huge pressure on sorc makes it so you just cannot solo oneshot a WL in a group/orvr/city environment. Honestly I feel like the single target spec of the sorc is starting to really lag behind.

Also sorc is not just about the big damage number, it's about timestamp, because if we look at damage numbers; well, scout SW has better numbers on a 5sec cooldown spell while sorc's is 10sec cd.
Oh right so we're whining about how OP a WL is with guard + wounds buff and maybe KOTBS auras vs a lone unguarded sorc?
Exactly who can oneshot who in group/city/orvr environment? If you know any WL who can just one-handedly oneshot anyone in group/rvr/city I would really want to meet him

btw WL abilities are all on CD too.


You guys are not making any sense you either talk about 1v1 or group but only on your terms.
You are even the ones who started comparing mdps to casters then we should nerf all tanks since a 2h BG can probably 1v2 anyone

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