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Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

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Reinhart
Posts: 3

Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#1 » Sat May 09, 2020 8:11 pm

Forts are defense side biased and are simply not fun. 20% Win ratio for offense team to win at anything besides reikwald and what 5% in reikwald.

Tanks and melee dps AFK for 3 minutes push then die, ranged DPS spam 2-3 AOE buttons. At this point I wish they would be removed from the game even though I need invader pieces. I would rather PvE for end game content then do Forts and I HATE PvE with a passion.

Where is the fun in the game where you just push in wipe to AOE push in again WIPE. Essentially you are locked in out of end game content by narrow doors and AOE spam.

Forts need to be reworked where positioning and skill is more important than mindless AOE spam and body blocking at doors.

Some suggestions:

Make first 2 stages harder for attacking team but make stage 3 easier by:

Hotfix Suggestion: While I understand and appreciate you working on solution. Can you hot fix reduce number of defenders by 25-30 people?

Suggestion 1: Disable RES in forts. This will make stage 2 for attacking team a lot harder, but stage 3 a lot easier.

Suggestion 2: Make so the % of the players is based on % of the keep taken. Example 150 order and 300 destro get Reikland keep. Reikwald should have 66.7% destr and 33.3% order then.

Suggestion 3: Widen the doors more.

Suggestion 4: Give attacking team 15% extra stats as they are disadvantaged.

Do something so then we can at least see a higher % win ration for attacking team for both Destro and Order.


OR HERE IS ANOTHER SUGGESTION:

Lock end game content on something besides the cities so we wont have to deal with this embarrassing crap show.
Last edited by Reinhart on Thu May 14, 2020 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EsthelielSunfury
Posts: 110

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#2 » Sat May 09, 2020 8:30 pm

Forts are the peak of RvR especially in the first two stages. No AFKers, no slackers, just the right people from the previous zone all in WBs going about fighting.

I think in total I've seen 2 Fort losses so far, one when I was rank 38 in Stonewatch and the other in Reikwald a while back. Got more than 150 invaders from the game so far, so I've done a few at least.

Main door is the one who needs to be wider so Destro can actually have a chance to get in. I've never seen them make it past main door except those two I mentioned and they had double our numbers there. A ton of people have suggested it, nothing else is really worth changing from what I've seen.

Maybe it's really difficult for the developers to do it, seems like they have to fiddle with in-game models for it which is a bit much for a pserver I suppose.

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Telen
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Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#3 » Sat May 09, 2020 8:39 pm

Forts favour ranged city favours melee. Seems designed that way for balance to me.
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#4 » Sat May 09, 2020 8:43 pm

Put the lord outside the fortress building but inside the fortress grounds, meeting the attackers head-on. Have the building as the order respawn area / safe zone. Have the flags buff the lord. One giant fight with both sides fighting for control of the flags to buff/debuff the lord and also try and kill /save the lord itself (lord would obviously need a big HP increase). Make the lord a giant wrecking ball who wanders around back and forth near the fort build's main door. No more jail system but one of the flag could control the defender repsawn time.

Ranged and melee get to paricipate, nobody can blob up or else they lose the flags and it's far more engaging than aiming for one wipe plus PVE.

You know when someone aggros the keep lord while sieging a keep's inner doors and it goes on a rampage for a while? Make forts like that.
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saupreusse
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Posts: 2386

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#5 » Sat May 09, 2020 10:55 pm

I had a fun idea 2 years ago. Bind the outside bo to a lord resource. The more bo the attackers hold, the faster the lord will run out of resources and will be forced to move outside and fight to break the siege.
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Starx
Posts: 336

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#6 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:04 pm

saupreusse wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 10:55 pm I had a fun idea 2 years ago. Bind the outside bo to a lord resource. The more bo the attackers hold, the faster the lord will run out of resources and will be forced to move outside and fight to break the siege.
Ya the only way to change the fundamental flaw with choke based battles is to split up the fight, if the BO's continued to be important in stage 3... maybe each providing a realm wide bonus. Like say one BO gave your realm 10% more damage, one 10% more healing, 10% longer range, reduced cast times etc... then just shacking up and turtling against attackers with 5 diff buffs would be... no ideal...

It would also give purpose to certain classes that amount to nothing more than cannon fodder in the current fort iteration. WH/WE could actually *gasp* use their stealth to get around and ninja/protect flags. Smaller groups that wouldnt help much in the main push could be effective outside holdings bo's etc...

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toffikx
Posts: 281
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Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#7 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:09 pm

EsthelielSunfury wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 8:30 pm Forts are the peak of RvR especially in the first two stages.
What about the last stage?

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#8 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:21 pm

Another thing that might help is having attacking support npc charge into the lord room like every 5 minutes in the later stages. They could be really tanky and deal a bit of aoe and would be a good indicator for ppl to push. This way everyone would be like: yeah the support npc are here to charge in with us, now i can push. The strength of these npc could scale with how well you did in the first round. They could also have a knockback without handing out immunities to break help break the funnel. Might also give a bit of immersion to have some npc back you up as an attacker every 5 minutes.
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medvtank1
Posts: 25

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#9 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:31 pm

saupreusse wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 11:21 pm Another thing that might help is having attacking support npc charge into the lord room like every 5 minutes in the later stages. They could be really tanky and deal a bit of aoe and would be a good indicator for ppl to push. This way everyone would be like: yeah the support npc are here to charge in with us, now i can push. The strength of these npc could scale with how well you did in the first round. They could also have a knockback without handing out immunities to break help break the funnel. Might also give a bit of immersion to have some npc back you up as an attacker every 5 minutes.
Both of these ideas are very interesting. I like this one. Instead of an arbitrary countdown by some random people it would make it very easy to see/know when the push is coming.

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wonshot
Posts: 1101

Re: Forts are by far the most INFURIATING part of the game

Post#10 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:32 pm

I personally love forts, both defending and attacking.

And the reason is, that players are actually forming/joining warbands and roaming around. Lately the "Nascar" trend has kinda become meta and its a big shame, spreading the action out between the Battleobjectives, having several warbands clash into eachother, assigning manpower and resources to either zerg and apply stacking woundsdebuffs, or focus straight on the BOs and get the door down.

But the main part is, that players are actually playing and the fighting is somewhat interactive during stage2.
Stage3 was fun during different patches, the Destro MDPS warbands to break a bottomfloor hold was cool.
Defending stage3 and jumping from inner walls down on the attackers and supricing them is very risky and rewarding, and this sort of gameplay is what makes me keep attending in Forts as long as theres a chance of these epic moments and "300" feelings I so much persue.

Now for how forts could look like in terms of scenario and objectives;

During stage3 the BOs are no longer in play, and only postern + maingate are the full focus. Heck even the lord is a nonefactor if we are being honest.
Letting the defenders do risky manovers to leave the innerkeep and captureing a BO during stage3 to get a free respawn inside inner per BO they capture, will spread the action out hopefully. Letting some gurilla warfare defenders try to obtain a doorrepair from captureing 3/5 BOs and letting the realms coordinate and assign manpower more over just doing a "Is Morale 4 ready? okay countdown in 30sec" coordination.

Whatever system that will allow more coordinationg and let you outplay with communication and organization, I am all for. Wether its siegetowers spawned by guilds, orcapult pugwarbands, or ninjacapping BOs to push stage3 back to stage2 and limmit the timer for the attackers.
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