The Great Healer Debate - Armor vs. Wounds

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The simple truth is that you're all a bunch of cheapskate and wanna get away with wounds instead of armor

I could afford to slot full armor, but why do it if it's sub-optimal? I really want to see parts of this community coming together like this to provide newer players with information on specific classes, gearing, and strategies. It's a big undertaking, but it's an important part of why people stick with games they try. Not to mention, it helps the realm out in RvR. We've all seen that mid-tier healer running around with full willpower talismans slotted...

[Jeliel80]

A way more interesting (and logical) comparison is toughness vs armor, for the math inclined experts.
Wounds is just a buffer, after you have "enough" you're set imho.

[chudasvi]

scaling of damage reduction by toughness is just too low.
@Jeliel80 how much is "enough" wounds then? 10k to survive M2 bomb, which is hardly achievable without sloting all wounds talismans?

[Zxul]

scaling of damage reduction by toughness is just too low.

Thats a third time I'm posting this:



843 toughness on dok.

[Jeliel80]

scaling of damage reduction by toughness is just too low.
@Jeliel80 how much is "enough" wounds then? 10k to survive M2 bomb, which is hardly achievable without sloting all wounds talismans?

That you have to decide for yourself, but if you're getting morale bombed often as a healer the positioning is wrong (rare cases excluded).
With end game gear (or even not that much endgame gear) you can easily surpass 8k with no wounds tali, just saying.

Toughness isn't stupid, especially on DoK/WP, but they already have medium armor and aoe detaunt, so obviously there are more considerations into the big scheme of things.

Just my 2c.

[Omegus]

A way more interesting (and logical) comparison is toughness vs armor, for the math inclined experts.
Wounds is just a buffer, after you have "enough" you're set imho.

My brain is already exploding trying to figure out how to do a useful comparison considering it needs to take into account base damage and primary stat contribution into account aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Someone else can do the spreadsheet for this one.

Toughness DoKs: what's your setup and how much heal crit do you have?

[chudasvi]

@Zxul, I am no sure if 66% damage mitigation is all due to toughness. But if you got proves, let me know please. And such amount, of toughness, is reachable only on wp/dok. Rest healers classes hardly reach half of it. So we can't just recommend to all healer classes to stack toughness.

@jeliel you are right, with end game gear, mixing two sets, you can reach 8k without talis. But that BiS gear. I dont think average healers can mix sov/war to get maximum of it.

[jtj5002]

@Zxul, I am no sure if 66% damage mitigation is all due to toughness. But if you got proves, let me know please. And such amount, of toughness, is reachable only on wp/dok. Rest healers classes hardly reach half of it. So we can't just recommend to all healer classes to stack toughness.
@jeliel you are right, with end game gear, mixing two sets, you can reach 8k without talis. But that BiS gear. I dont think mid tier healers can mix sov/war.

He has around 3000 armor and the WL he's fighting only has around 30% armor pen and did not use armor debuff. He had effectively ~2100 effective armor against that WL, which means 48% of his 66% mitigation came from his armor, and 18% (this will vary from skill to skill depending on strength multiplier) from toughness.

[Zxul]

A way more interesting (and logical) comparison is toughness vs armor, for the math inclined experts.
Wounds is just a buffer, after you have "enough" you're set imho.

My brain is already exploding trying to figure out how to do a useful comparison considering it needs to take into account base damage and primary stat contribution into account aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Someone else can do the spreadsheet for this one.

Toughness DoKs: what's your setup and how much heal crit do you have?

As a toughness dok you need a toughness set bonus(=currently 4 invader)/ 2 toughness genesis/ t4 inf chalice/ city dungeon sword with toughness/ maxed ren toughness, the rest of the slots you fill with whatever preferred set with toughness on parts. Other option is 4 invader/3 conq for double toughness set bonus- with possibly some init talis in to get init to 275. In general, for toughness to even start to really work you need 700+, however it takes 800+ for it to start to really kick in.

Crit is based on how much do you actually care about- personally I consider 14% crit which translates on dok into 7% extra healing not worth the investment, so went for FS4, putting my heal crit at 5% or so. Still manage to finish in top healing spots in cities just fine- being able to stay near frontlines so you can spam Essence Lash on CD to have enough SE to spam aoe heal nonstop matters on dok lot more then heal crit.

Btw also got 8.1 k hp with no wounds talis.

@Zxul, I am no sure if 66% damage mitigation is all due to toughness. But if you got proves, let me know please. And such amount, of toughness, is reachable only on wp/dok. Rest healers classes hardly reach half of it. So we can't just recommend to all healer classes to stack toughness.

Got 3 k armor with pot/ 5% reduced armor pen, which help but are less then even a cloth healer which is trying.

As for toughness spec, lot of it is general staff- talis, renown, toughness set bonuses which are same for all healers on heal sets. Not sure about toughness bonuses on specific sets/stats on city weapons for other classes, from other hand sham got a hardcore toughness self buff. Comparing to zealot though, zealot actually needs heal crit, so there might be some difference there.

He has around 3000 armor and the WL he's fighting only has around 30% armor pen and did not use armor debuff. He had effectively ~2100 effective armor against that WL, which means 48% of his 66% mitigation came from his armor, and 18% (this will vary from skill to skill depending on strength multiplier) from toughness.

There is also 1571 noncrit Snipe is same screenshot which got mitigated to 528, feel free to check how much ws the engi got. Then there is also mitigation vs bws, will get a screenshot of that sometime.

[Nikkuz]

One question
Stacking armor tali + pot 660 + armor buff & arm penetration reduction from zeal tact ( it doesnt add full effect couse pot i know) ON MATH could be a good choise or stll wounds >>>armor ?