Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

[Sarnai]

I can explain too:

You are actively saying that a premade being made to fight on a level playing field is a 'punishment' and then right after claiming that premades looking for ez wins is ridiculous.

The playing field is leveled by default and you get an advantage by grouping up and organizing and everybody has the option to do just that. And despite what people claim, you can do that on every class. You punish that effort if you reduce their emblem rewards, because ultimately this is what city is about. And winning and ez wins are not the same. People want to win despite having close fights, obviously. But this doesnt work on a larger scale

In your opinion, what do you think the response would be if they made premades have to face premades but increased the crest reward for their 'harder work'? Genuinely curious, because I know what I think would happen : the premades would complain just as much as they do now.

A lot of you have been running in only premades for so long I feel like you think pug v pug is some kind of Sunday stroll. You have no idea what you're going to come up against. You have no idea if you can rely on the person next to you. You don't even know if the other people in your instance even know the mechanics. Of course forming a premade, getting in comms, working together and all that fancy jazz is tough. The battles are intense with very little room for error, I've been lucky enough to run with a few in some cities. You guys do pretty amazing things in the game, I don't think anyone disputes that. Give bigger rewards to premade v premade and that should resolve the complaints from the guildies and also encouraging the soloers to consider grouping up, which is what you all claim they should be doing in the first place, correct?

Somehow I just don't see the premades being told that they'll have an actual fight on their hands each time they queue taking that very well, even for increased rewards. Makes me wonder who the real whiners and complainers are.

[Nekkma]

This is an excellent illustrator of my prior point:

Why do you try paint guilds are the big bad guys? when its the stubborn/ignorance/laziness of pugs who want to be competitive without putting in any work... if destro pugs can do it, why not orders...

Right. The issue can't possibly be that some who play this game have actual lives outside of the game, or perhaps family members to take care of, or children or jobs or loss to deal with and therefore come here for a bit of diversion or escape with the desire to just enjoy the experience. No, it has to be they are ignorant, or lazy, or stubborn. In other words deficient in some manner. Right.

If you have time to complete a city you have time to write in /5 class x lf wb/12/6man during the 10 min set up time. Grouping up is typically not some Herculean feat that only ”no-lifers” can master. Furthermore, all people going solo do not do that because they RL commitments. Some just prefer to go alone, I do that sometimes, but you should not expect this type of game to cater for that behaviour.

[Kwatchi]

Look for a guild, join a warband that is looking for people in /5, queue it up with your friends. Plenty of ways to get into a city that isnt 0 effort run in solo.
What you are asking for is that players who make the effort of organizing pre-city, playing strong setups with group synergy should effectively penalized by reducing their win ratio because people who cannot be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort want to have a "fair" chance at winning cities?

I disagree with this statement. The reality is there is quite a difference between Destro and Order queuing for city instances. Without getting into an argument about the underlying reasons , if you are not playing one of the desired Order classes (i.e. SL, BW, WL, WP, RP, KoBS, SM) you will not be invited to an organized city WB anymore. Any outlier classes come from known guild mates, if at all. Destro is more lenient in class make-up because they can make more synergies work in City. That is the state of things until the devs take an interest in correcting it.

There is no "slight effort" solution either. You play/reroll a desired class; if not, you pug it and get farmed for your 3 crests. It is unfortunate but because our "strong setups" are very limited, Order now has to be draconian about make-up in order to be competitive.

To give my personal example, I benched my AM and rerolled a SL after some internal discussions. I did that because I wanted to help improve the success of the guild Wb, and my healer was not optimal (you can't have more than 1 AM in city group ideally and we had 3 active ones). It took me just under a month of constant grinding to get back to Invader gear, and it would not have been possible had we not been in lock-down. This is the level of effort now required to be competitive in city if you made the mistake of picking the 'wrong class' on the Order side - hardly "slight".


As to the OP's request of a PUG on PUG version, I disagree with the idea and frankly think it won't work anyway. Destro have a simpler "melee ball" combo that pugs can execute and thrives in cramped environments, while Order pugs will likely be a mishmash of predominantly ranged dps trying to kite in a close quarters environment. It will still be an uphill encounter for the latter simply due to geometry.


My two coins.

[Arcrival]

I believe I saw a post somewhere it might have been by Secrets it related to question and advised that the system first matched we’d groups then solo. I am not 100% on this but if that’s the case then the system is at least attempting to match

[Martok]

If you have time to complete a city you have time to write in /5 class x lf wb/12/6man during the 10 min set up time.

This is still known of as Pugging an SC. In addition it has little to do with my actual point.

[Foofmonger]

This is an excellent illustrator of my prior point:

Why do you try paint guilds are the big bad guys? when its the stubborn/ignorance/laziness of pugs who want to be competitive without putting in any work... if destro pugs can do it, why not orders...

Right. The issue can't possibly be that some who play this game have actual lives outside of the game, or perhaps family members to take care of, or children or jobs or loss to deal with and therefore come here for a bit of diversion or escape with the desire to just enjoy the experience. No, it has to be they are ignorant, or lazy, or stubborn. In other words deficient in some manner. Right.

Everyone has lives outside of the game. This is a red herring argument and silly at that. I lead a full life, with a demanding job, and I play WAR for fun, and I understand that putting a little effort into a videogame will increase my enjoyment.

You are making an argument based on assumptions that there are a group of "no lifers" and a group of "important people who can't be bothered to care about trying in a videogame" and this is a 100% false narrative and false dichotomy. I'm sorry but it's absolutely ridiculous and all you are doing is sowing division in this community with your half-baked and half assed theories.

You are also a person who has nearly 1000 forum posts, so I don't think from your own personal viewpoint that you have any issues with having enough time to find groups or guilds.

I'm not against a pug vs pug city. I enjoy pug vs pug cities. I'm against your argument, your premise, and your bad theories. I work, I experience loss, I care for others, and I use this game for a bit of diversion and escape with a desire to just enjoy this experience. And I still am in a guild, know how to find a group, and put the **** 10 seconds of effort in that it requires to play a social game. Implying that people who like to try even a little bit have "no life" and you are somehow "more important" disgusts me.

In reality, it's actually just effort that makes the difference. It's not "having a life". We all have lives, some of us just put the minimum required effort into our lives to enjoy them, and others whine and complain.

[Martok]

If you are going to take the time to craft a response, I suggest you first attempt to understand the point being made.

Everyone has lives outside of the game.

My objection was to the name-calling, the assertion people must be lazy or ignorant because they don't play the game in the exact manner someone else believes they should. And that sentiment certainly exist here, it is articulated on almost a daily basis.

In addition you are attempting to poison the well. I never used either of the phrases "no lifers" or "important people who can't be bothered to care about trying in a videogame," nor did I make any such argument.


And this:

Implying that people who like to try even a little bit have "no life" and you are somehow "more important" disgusts me.

Is just a flat out lie.

[Foofmonger]

If you are going to take the time to craft a response, I suggest you first attempt to understand the point being made.

Everyone has lives outside of the game.

My objection was to the name-calling, the assertion people must be lazy or ignorant because they don't play the game in the exact manner someone else believes they should. And that sentiment certainly exist here, it is articulated on almost a daily basis.

In addition you are attempting to poison the well. I never used either of the phrases "no lifers" or "important people who can't be bothered to care about trying in a videogame," nor did I make any such argument.

The inverse of laziness is putting in effort, so as I already articulated, I disagree with your premise entirely. It is an issue with effort, and therefore, laziness.

You brought up the point that "some of us have lives outside of the game", implying that there are "no lifers" who do not. That's why you used the word "some".

I understood your point exactly. Thanks though. I stand by my post. And no, there are no "flat out lies", you said, and I quote...

The issue can't possibly be that some who play this game have actual lives outside of the game

You know how tone and context work right? You directly implied that you are the "some of us" who "have lives". I'm not into your gas-lighting and false narratives. Some of us also have lives and still put the effort in and don't use our lives as excuses as to why we are performing poorly.

[Martok]

You can't even quote correctly.

This:

You brought up the point that "some of us have lives outside of the game"...

Is not what I said.

[jaxamillian]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I have learned several things

- destruction don't want the easy pug city farm to stop
- how dare you play a non wanted city class, reroll immediatly
- it's incredibly lazy not joining a group and you should be immediatly executed irl
- most people are afraid of some sort of a challenge

I apologise to everyone immediatly for DARING to suggest some sort of an even playing field in cities (which are perfectly balanced right now as everyone can clearly see!)