Any chance for pugs vs pugs in Cities?

[Tartuccio]

As a mainly solo player I always pug for cities, unfortunately 90% of the time we face up vs perfect premades.

Haven't you heard? As clearly stated right here on these very forums by one of the upper echelon the fact you play as a pug renders you meat for the grinder, and nothing more.

Love the server and appreciate you guys, but pugs vs pugs would be great

It would.

But your only actual option is "get good" or something. Or "learn to play" scrub. Or play the game in the exact manner someone else wants you to play it in otherwise even if you were in a guild or alliance you would immediately be kicked from that guild or alliance if certain someones saw you playing in a manner you actually enjoy.


Typically I deal in satire. But on this occasion every word I transcribed above are exact declarations taken from responses to this exact proposal the first time it came up.

Very true, and people are also not mentioning that some classes/specs are simply not as good as the full on meta comps, especially for cities. So what are your options there if you are playing one of those classes besides either being meat for the meat grinder, as it was put, or to be the lucky one person that will get a spot in an organised group among the Slayers/BW/Kotbs etc.

This is the main issue in my opinion. So what if it's fine to have one WH, SW, IB, AM,Engi in a guild warband or premade? Statistically that's still not enough positions for everyone who is up during city time to get in such a group, which means the majority of the players playing those classes will be forced to pug and be meat either way. "Just reroll" isn't a good reply to this, people invest time in their characters and I don't blame them for expecting the endgame to be balanced. Maybe if more classes were viable to have multiple of in cities then people would be more likely to create premades/join guilds.

And before some of the cynical remarks that show up in these threads appear, yes, I still love the game. It's just a discussion.

[Shadowgurke]

Look for a guild, join a warband that is looking for people in /5, queue it up with your friends. Plenty of ways to get into a city that isnt 0 effort run in solo.
What you are asking for is that players who make the effort of organizing pre-city, playing strong setups with group synergy should effectively penalized by reducing their win ratio because people who cannot be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort want to have a "fair" chance at winning cities?

The amount of organized warbands that queue for city is vastly overstated, most of them are a core 6-12 with pugs from /5. You can win plenty of cities just with a 6 man, even versus strong opposition.

The "warbands just want to have ez wins" is completely ridiculous too. Everybody likes a good fight, stomps are always more boring. But in that case losing a non pug city needs to give more rewards than winning a pug city, and that would probably result in more tears. Also splitting the population is always risky, especially when the solution is as simple as looking for a damn group in an MMO.

[Martok]

This is an excellent illustrator of my prior point:

Why do you try paint guilds are the big bad guys? when its the stubborn/ignorance/laziness of pugs who want to be competitive without putting in any work... if destro pugs can do it, why not orders...

Right. The issue can't possibly be that some who play this game have actual lives outside of the game, or perhaps family members to take care of, or children or jobs or loss to deal with and therefore come here for a bit of diversion or escape with the desire to just enjoy the experience. No, it has to be they are ignorant, or lazy, or stubborn. In other words deficient in some manner. Right.

[Sarnai]

What you are asking for is that players who make the effort of organizing pre-city, playing strong setups with group synergy should effectively penalized by reducing their win ratio because people who cannot be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort want to have a "fair" chance at winning cities?

The "warbands just want to have ez wins" is completely ridiculous too.

Lol.

[Wam]

This is an excellent illustrator of my prior point:

Why do you try paint guilds are the big bad guys? when its the stubborn/ignorance/laziness of pugs who want to be competitive without putting in any work... if destro pugs can do it, why not orders...

Right. The issue can't possibly be that some who play this game have actual lives outside of the game, or perhaps family members to take care of, or children or jobs or loss to deal with and therefore come here for a bit of diversion or escape with the desire to just enjoy the experience. No, it has to be they are ignorant, or lazy, or stubborn. In other words deficient in some manner. Right.

If they complain without putting in effort ... then yeah that is lazy (people want empty pve instances instead of enemies), dont get me wrong i can understand people's frustrations because the system is not perfect and favours certain timezones over others so people on structured timetable especially EU based get the short end of stick usually which is harsh

If they take things as they are without complaint they know what they are getting into... its like me joining a scenario solo, complaining got matched with a premade ... i know the risks going in, i could enhance my chances if i was equally prepared, so I accept the cards which have been dealt me because it was my choice to not be fully prepared. But its even worse because its end game and the focal point of game atm and you also get rewarded for losing. So where is people incentive to improve when they are getting half rewarded anyways...

[agemennon675]

Everyone in this thread like hurr durr why are you pugging go find a group or guild and ignore no one wants WH/Engi/SW in their party/group/warband/guild its not solo mentality we are forced to go solo

[Shadowgurke]

What you are asking for is that players who make the effort of organizing pre-city, playing strong setups with group synergy should effectively penalized by reducing their win ratio because people who cannot be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort want to have a "fair" chance at winning cities?

The "warbands just want to have ez wins" is completely ridiculous too.

Lol.

Quoting the full sentence usually helps you understand the argument better, but no worries I'll help. The gear progression from Sovereign is directly tied to how many cities you win. So while warband players mostly want good fights, getting less crests because you get closer fights is not the way to go because this incentivizes people going in solo, which is not what this game or any MMO is or should be about

[Tartuccio]

Everyone in this thread like hurr durr why are you pugging go find a group or guild and ignore no one wants WH/Engi/SW in their party/group/warband/guild its not solo mentality we are forced to go solo

Or as I said they might want a few of those classes but just a few. Which still leaves the majority of those classes having to pug since the rest of the spots are taken.

[Sarnai]

What you are asking for is that players who make the effort of organizing pre-city, playing strong setups with group synergy should effectively penalized by reducing their win ratio because people who cannot be bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort want to have a "fair" chance at winning cities?

The "warbands just want to have ez wins" is completely ridiculous too.

Lol.

Quoting the full sentence usually helps you understand the argument better, but no worries I'll help. The gear progression from Sovereign is directly tied to how many cities you win. So while warband players mostly want good fights, getting less crests because you get closer fights is not the way to go because this incentivizes people going in solo, which is not what this game or any MMO is or should be about

I can explain too:

You are actively saying that a premade being made to fight on a level playing field is a 'punishment' and then right after claiming that premades looking for ez wins is ridiculous.

[Shadowgurke]

I can explain too:

You are actively saying that a premade being made to fight on a level playing field is a 'punishment' and then right after claiming that premades looking for ez wins is ridiculous.

The playing field is leveled by default and you get an advantage by grouping up and organizing and everybody has the option to do just that. And despite what people claim, you can do that on every class. You punish that effort if you reduce their emblem rewards, because ultimately this is what city is about. And winning and ez wins are not the same. People want to win despite having close fights, obviously. But this doesnt work on a larger scale