Debate about why Order is how it is.

[Nameless]

Imo overpopulated bw is a myth. Orders side is full with engies, sws, slayers and wls. Slayers are decent pick but slayer without guard and without any frontline is just free kill. This is from sc observation. There is no tanks whatsoever, which mean no frontline, which mean that rdps and healers lines break instantly under any pressure. And of top of that on ror we have msh and gtdc which is the final nails to heavy backline orders setups (making am kinda redundant).

[Serilian]

My 2 cents:
- think Order has a lot more new players - good guy - being maybe more natural choice
- art - Order tanks look almost like a YMCA video material, MDPSers are not very intimidating looking either
- Destro melee train is based mainly on choppy pull - that one is just silly, gets you through walls from behind the barriers, interrupts all abilities - just crazy OP, 1 guarded choppa can mess up all backline and have healers rdpsers reposition rather than do their job which ends up in wipe quite often, also all destro melee looks badass
- destro ranged look a lot worse than order - I mean SH is ugly as hell, Magus looks terrible on that flying plate, I’d say only spec looks semi good
- order also has two great looking useless classes SW and WH - they don’t bring much to the team effort, nearly negligible orvr contribution ( actually seem today in chat someone looking to exchange WH and SW in WB for afk healer)
Still organized order can do good but susually after one wipe ppl don’t even try harder or adjust tactics, they just go afk and look for easier fights to win.

[Sarnai]

As voiced several times, I think the Rule of Cool reigns supreme. BOs spearheading a push with Choppas who are just as big and brutal looking is quite the sight -- sure it's a video game but there's real psychology here, both in how the players getting charged feel about their front line being dwarfed and how the player charging feel when they go barreling down. I think for the most part it's easy to see why one is more appealing than the other.

When it comes to mdps, it's the same thing as tanks. Two lines meeting, hitting...beefy marauders and roaring choppas that are physically bigger tearing into...4' potbellies and slim, lithe elves with a cat? It doesn't look right, doesn't feel right, and is an understandable turnoff. Too much of Order's mdps, in both look and playstyle, is too appealing to the 'solo' gamer. You don't feel like you belong in a pitched battle as a Shadow Warrior, a Witch Hunter, or (to a lesser extent since whirling around that big axe is pretty sweet) a White Lion. The feel of the classes don't feel like 'battle' classes, where Marauders and Choppas look right at home.

[Illuminati]

Probably something like this...

60% of the players want to be DPS
20% of the players want to be Healers
10% of the players want to be Tanks
10% of the players don't want to identify / can play multiple

Look at the work those WPs did to get a viable shield spec so now 66% of the heals can DPS better and still perform a role. They put good emphasis on improvement to their Destro counterpart during the sales pitch as well.

Just need tank advocates to champion Tank changes for both sides.

Also remember to take a breath, remember this game was in the dust and held together by the blood, sweat and tears of a few people (and the pockets of even less), and fill out a bug report. How many of the abilities are broken and would make the class more fun if they were simply fixed (i.e. Touch of Palsy application not critically hitting, not talking about the dot) resulting in more fun.

I was amazed after seeing all these Chosen advocates that not a single one posted a bug fix to get Seeping Wound to Crit, Oppression to get stat contribution, etc. when all it took was 10 mins of my time. The class is now more enjoyable.

Anyway, want more tanks, roll a fkn tank and stop making keep vultures and channeled RoF spammers. I would increase resistances across the board and move the magical damage mitigation cap to 75% from 40%. I would also take some damage away from casters and increase their auto-attack damage to a ranged auto-attack that requires LOS and facing.

Why play a tank when physical mitigation is capped, toughness dmg reduction is capped, 75% of the abilities used bypass armor, block and parry, and guard/dmg prevented isn't shown in the scoreboard?

I blame that stupid trailer where the Chosen killed the WP solo...

[blondgelockt]

Dresses aren't a problem for Dark Elves (emo kids in mommy's bathrobe), Magus (surfer on a bad trip) or Zealot (bum in rags, requesting shopping cart trophy).

As voiced several times, I think the Rule of Cool reigns supreme. BOs spearheading a push with Choppas who are just as big and brutal looking is quite the sight -- sure it's a video game but there's real psychology here, both in how the players getting charged feel about their front line being dwarfed and how the player charging feel when they go barreling down. I think for the most part it's easy to see why one is more appealing than the other.

I think that is mainly cultural, though. I don't feel especially threatened irl when I see a black orc running towards me. I also don't think the "slim and elegant" fencing master is an unknown trope in pop culture at all.

[Truen]

Hi, I'm rather new to the game still but thought I'd jump in and add my 2cents. I think the larger problem is that Order tanks are kind of boring. I wish the game designed them with more flair / identity mechanics...instead, they're rather flat to play and can be tedious to level and grind. They die quickly to ranged pew pew, die alone in the world without heals, and just don't feel very fun to play.

I don't know if this game is even being updated to the extent that these concerns can be changed, but that's what I've seen so far. Order tanks have weak identities and are kind of boring in both mechanics and design.

[Sarnai]

Dresses aren't a problem for Dark Elves (emo kids in mommy's bathrobe), Magus (surfer on a bad trip) or Zealot (bum in rags, requesting shopping cart trophy).

As voiced several times, I think the Rule of Cool reigns supreme. BOs spearheading a push with Choppas who are just as big and brutal looking is quite the sight -- sure it's a video game but there's real psychology here, both in how the players getting charged feel about their front line being dwarfed and how the player charging feel when they go barreling down. I think for the most part it's easy to see why one is more appealing than the other.

I think that is mainly cultural, though. I don't feel especially threatened irl when I see a black orc running towards me. I also don't think the "slim and elegant" fencing master is an unknown trope in pop culture at all.

I think your flag of this as potentially cultural is probably right on the money. Data on the locations of players playing/maining specific classes would be very, very interesting to dig into. And I agree on the fencing master trope, and this may be cultural too, but that immediately puts a dueling, 1v1 image into my head. Not a battlefield.

[NSKaneda]

I think your flag of this as potentially cultural is probably right on the money. Data on the locations of players playing/maining specific classes would be very, very interesting to dig into. And I agree on the fencing master trope, and this may be cultural too, but that immediately puts a dueling, 1v1 image into my head. Not a battlefield.

Actually it puts this image in my head:



Rule of cool - obeyed. And I dislike elves

[emiliorv]

TL;DR: Fix all the broken tank abilities (on all tanks). (I bugged reported a bunch). Make them fun to play by actually giving them a DPS option that doesn't suck

Yeah, fix the broken tactics and after being working nerf them into the ground until turn useless again...

[Sarnai]

I think your flag of this as potentially cultural is probably right on the money. Data on the locations of players playing/maining specific classes would be very, very interesting to dig into. And I agree on the fencing master trope, and this may be cultural too, but that immediately puts a dueling, 1v1 image into my head. Not a battlefield.

Actually it puts this image in my head:



Rule of cool - obeyed. And I dislike elves

Haha! Give SW and WLs armor that looks like that and now we're getting somewhere! If you were to stand a WL next to a Choppa, I'm doubtful the casual observer would guess they're in the same armor class.