I agree with most of this, esp when it comes to WL and BW.videogamer wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 1:32 pm It's not just the tanks, there is other factors in play that make the Order frontline unappealing.
Slayers are big babies swinging their rattles around and whatever piece of armor you equip it still looks like you just created the character at level 1. Witch Hunters are decent however Witch Elves remain superior aesthetically, not that anyone cares about stealth classes anyway. White Lions - well everyone knows what kind of player plays a White Lion, sure it's popular because it's overpowered but at the same time there are players will refuse to play simply because of that fact.
One issue is that Bright Wizards simply do way too much AOE damage. People are willing to look the other way when it comes to this because of Order being "weaker" in terms of compositions and in winrate but it is part of the reason why compositions are so static. The Bright Wizard is simply too good. Why would you roll a melee DPS when you can be a Bright Wizard which is significantly better at AOE DPS AND it's ranged? On Destro that difference is much narrower, Marauder, Squig, etc can be competitive in AOE damage to Sorceresses if not better. The Magus' damage profile might be garbage in that it's sustained static aoe damage but atleast numerically they match up with Sorcs. In any real solution you're going to have to entertain the idea that the Bright Wizard is not going stay as strong as it is.
The Shadow Warrior archetype is in every fantasy game and they're always hugely popular not much you can really do there and even despite Shadow Warriors being SIGNIFICANTLY more **** at everything in the game people still play them in droves. There isn't much you can do to solve this problem, I mean the class it's literally broken and absolute dogshit and people still play it.
If you were to summarize your arguments the Engineer personifies them perfectly. It is exactly the kind of class you play to play ranged, to play solo, and to play without teamwork. To be fair Destruction have the exact same thing in the Magus except the Magus isn't as cool in comparison with other Destruction classes. DPS slots are way more competitive on Destro because much more stuff is viable so Magus don't really get invited to anything which keeps their population in check. On Order you pick Bright Wizards, then Slayers, then...well whatever you can get basically if you don't have the above, Engineers know this and take advantage of it, you have to invite them because you don't have a choice, on Destruction Magus sit outside the Maw waiting for their solo queue to pop.
So what can be done about it? Well it depends on what exactly the developers are capable of doing. If they're capable and willing to create new gear models they can do a lot to remedy this. Balancewise the Swordmaster and Slayer are in a good spot but they in particular could use more imposing, cooler gear to entice people to play them. Gear progression is a huge factor in this game and it sucks when you get a new item only to find it looks exactly like your current items. You cannot tell the difference between a level 16 Swordmaster and one in Sovereign. The difference between a level 1 slayer and a RR80 Slayer in Sovereign is a totem/standard thing on their back.
You could make the Knight and Ironbreaker models slightly bigger (maybe 10-20% bigger). Afterall they're both clad head to toe in armor so it makes sense they'd be slightly bigger to be able to wear that weight, like how a Chosen is bigger than other Chaos humans. It doesn't make sense an armored knight is as lithe as an assassin, you'd expect he'd be a big meaty thiccboi. Maybe you can make more imposing helmets for the Ironbreaker so that there's some variety in what type of tin can you're wearing.
Its like , surely , surely wargrimmer sees how ridiculously superior BW is to Sorc. WL are OP yes , but they are also relegated mele and can be dealt with, its not like they don't have a weakness, and I see them more as Choppers or mele SH. Sorcs are spooky and all, but literally nothing compared to BW. I am fine with classes being different. But just look at sorcs ....resist magic...okay not gona help you with mele trained and argueably inferior to the armor, but does let you survive some rando dots and ae thrown your way. Obsession is absolute **** trash unless you are walking around randomly in the world and encouter a 1v1 situation. In SC or oRvR that is so rare. Its not worth the GCD. In return BW get a clense , which pairs nicely with their armor buff. Add onto that more AE , and the close in the gap of single target DPS and its like, jesus.
Destro requires more order and discipline in their ranks, esp with mele , but they have stronger mele pain trains than they realize. But 90% of the time, even in wb , people play like potato. Order just benefits that with superior classes that can do everything themselves. Imagine if sorc had a core self heal or life steal? Or an Iceblock? Destro can achieve similar results but they require more teamwork, and ontop of that BW just have larger numbers for what the archtype is designed to do, make boom boom.
However suggesting that ironbreakers should be larger is gona be written in the book of grudges im afraid.
