Debate about why Order is how it is.

[emiliorv]

Maybe order get too much pops like this one....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mMcHh_WLw

For the record => the only dok was dps specced

[Jeliel80]

So order wasn't doing more damage than destro, as you first said? It's pretty even at best, top was destro by far, I have phase 1+2 as well on ss.

Anyway don't worry about me/us, I think we're doing pretty well for ourselves, beat plenty of premades, yours included, and had good fights even when losing.
Not sure why do you have to make it personal tbh.

Now we can keep arguing, but my opinion is that, as I've expressed multiple times, the skewed morale imbalance makes it way easier (as a minimum) to play destro.

I said that it before, not necessarily stronger, but way easier.

Of course you can counter it, you can spread, you can counter siphons in sucession, counter bomb, kite with AMs, sure pump solar flare, equip desolation, etc. etc.

That doesn't change the whole point though.

Take care.

[Greenbeast]

So order wasn't doing more damage than destro, as you first said? It's pretty even at best, top was destro by far, I have phase 1+2 as well on ss.

Anyway don't worry about me/us, I think we're doing pretty well for ourselves, beat plenty of premades, yours included, and had good fights even when losing.
Not sure why do you have to make it personal tbh.

Don't worry though, we're coming to the proper side.

This phrase was the reason of my reaction.
It seems to me that you're trying to tell me that the only solely reason for any victory that a destruction premade score is a broken class balance.
I can understand this pov from pug/semi organized side. But I don't buy it from one of the best premades out there.

So order wasn't doing more damage than destro, as you first said? It's pretty even at best, top was destro by far, I have phase 1+2 as well on ss.

So order under -50% damage debuff doing same damage as destruction and are able to score killing blows and erase rdps classes in 1-2 gcds. And you have access to Destructing Bellow as well just 10-15 seconds later. We don't run any morale pumps except on SNB tanks and we run 2x2h tanks in this setup. So we had 6 SNB tanks, 3 of them were using M2 rotation that left us with 3 tanks for a morale drop + one marauder, 1 witch elf and 4 sorcs that were behind in the morale game because you were very successful in killing them..
If you would have fought any other group that wasn't good in that M2/challenge rotation you would have had 50% more, wouldn't you? And this 20% more would have denied any chances of any morale drop at all because you would have killed everything before morale drop was even remotely possible.
*I've forgot that DB is -50% damage as somebody just told me.

[raistomen]

order lose because top order guilds seek to only pugstomp

looking at you TC lol

[Omegus]

I agree with that. The fountain area is pretty much perfectly mirrored for both sides. I think the kings fight slightly closer to Destro spawn in the IC fountain but that is trivial to move compared to balancing the palaces.

yes yes ...and this is main reason why order is loosing most of the cities ........ pls can you start your own thread to troll

That isn't me trolling. Posting the destro city soundtrack is me trolling.

First up:

Click here to watch on YouTube

[Manatikik]

Why do people playing pug talk about moral drop? I win 4/5, and we never even try to organize the moral drop. The moral drop decides that only in the top premades battles. Better start playing tanks, playing against 3 tanks is just ridiculous.

I run pug WB's and face Pnp/fmj/tup/dachosen in literally 95% of my cities; if I didn't morale drop I'd lose a majority of my cities. Sure when we fight random riff-raff we usually don't get to morales but thats like such a slim minority of cities, are there really that many pug instances going on?

[Omegus]

are there really that many pug instances going on?

Put it this way: we (Dachosen/etc) have generally stopped putting the results from those sieges on discord as they happened too often and novelty of big stompy numbers wore off

[jtj5002]

are there really that many pug instances going on?

It's very difficult to get matched up with any order WB that's not 3 tanks /13 dps with 5 engies. We haven't seen 8 tanks in a order WB in like a week. I much rather get matched up and losing to the better order premades more often, at least we can practice and learn from those. You don't get any better from spawn camping pugs.

[Bosli]

If some order players are still thinking that destro win just because they have so much better classes, maybe you should try checking out the time 10 minutes before the second fort falls, until city siege is up.
Destro /5 chat is spammed so hard by literally 98% of players either trying to fill their warband or find a warband that you have problems right-clicking someone's name.
Meanwhile, on order /5 - nothing. At least half of all instances are full pugs, others do their recruitment in discords and end up with only 12 or 18.

Sure, those "full pug" 24mans on destro aren't very strong - but at least they all go for a 2-2-2 setup, which is the reason they beat the order 14dps warbands every single time, and even have a chance beating some of the premade ones.

[Mordd]

are there really that many pug instances going on?

It's very difficult to get matched up with any order WB that's not 3 tanks /13 dps with 5 engies. We haven't seen 8 tanks in a order WB in like a week. I much rather get matched up and losing to the better order premades more often, at least we can practice and learn from those. You don't get any better from spawn camping pugs.

This may be due to the population imbalance caused in part by city setup imbalance.
2/3 of the people im friends with in game have either quit or are playing destro. On Destro I hear pugs dont always get a city spot. On order if you are 40 and breathing you can get in city pretty much to the last minute of queue. I ran up last week with 2 minutes left in queue, solo and instantly got a spot. So there may well be more destro premades than order simply because of the population.
The order exodus of the people I know was caused by short of the best most organized WBs order was losing far more than wining. Even most of those arguing here admit pug vs pug destro has a much easier time. we can argue over why that is, but thats just how it is.

As more order leaves, rerolls, Destro quits out of lack of action. I have been playing around on destro my self and damn SC queues take a long time on destro.