Debate about why Order is how it is.

[TreefAM]

Yeah blame destro op when you keep stacking lol engis in cities, at least TRY to organize in /5. Make a 12man, make a random discord made for only pug leading, it doesn't have to be your own guild disco and force the 11 to join you in coms, it's not that hard.
When you get inside, just spam your discord in hopes that the other 12 join you.
That's what destro has been doing for such a long time now, more or less every destro pug wb that's forming during the time of the last fort is in coms, the only ones that don't do disc are the last minute pugs that take everything (and don't get a que anyhow)

[Acidic]

The forum never fail to amuse.

You have:
Eyewitness testimony showing order can win with no problem
Eyewitness testimony showing order WB mix is not balanced
Eyewitness testimony showing Destro spends time making balanced WB
Eyewitness testimony showing order dps and heal potential is higher than Destro

These are from players playing both sides

Then you get conclusions that Destro classes are op from some, just hard to fathom.

If I was you I would follow the above up and try identify why there is better organization on destro, what is pulling leaders to Destro, what makes order leaders stop leading.

[blondgelockt]

We will never have perfect balance. Players need to solve some of the balance issues themselves. Order is for example littered with engies (from my perspective it seems to be on of the most popular classes orderside), a class that is a good solo sniper in keeps/forts and orvr but complete trash in scenarios against semi-organized oponents. It is fine to play an engie but you cannot stack them and expect any succes (which is the case for many classes on both sides btw). As such, there is plenty to work with.

On live, order had plenty of useless classes but order wbs did just fine in general because they stacked the good ones (empire wbs with token slayer).

1. If perfect balance isn't achievable, a completely inbalanced game is okay? What kind of fallacy is that again?
2. Players cannot solve underlying balance issues, that's something the devs should have done years ago, but they explicitly didn't. Which is why I think they won't, because it seems to me they more or less like the way things are now.
3. Again, Order doesn't have the luxury to wildly mix and match classes and specs and experiment. Most order classes are weak and/or hard to play. Many specs are not viable at all, some are never viable. tl;dr: If you see order stacking so few classes, there is a reason for that.

Live was NEVER as bad balance-wise. Order WAS noticably weaker than Destro overall already, but not even close to the level we have seen on RoR.

[Nekkma]

1. If perfect balance isn't achievable, a completely inbalanced game is okay? What kind of fallacy is that again?
2. Players cannot solve underlying balance issues, that's something the devs should have done years ago, but they explicitly didn't. Which is why I think they won't, because it seems to me they more or less like the way things are now.
3. Again, Order doesn't have the luxury to wildly mix and match classes and specs and experiment. Most order classes are weak and/or hard to play. Many specs are not viable at all, some are never viable. tl;dr: If you see order stacking so few classes, there is a reason for that.

Live was NEVER as bad balance-wise. Order WAS noticably weaker than Destro overall already, but not even close to the level we have seen on RoR.

1. strawman - lack of complete balance is not "completely inbalanced"
2. Classes/specs are good/bad at different areas of the game. Players cannot expect to bring plenty of suboptimal classes and specs and succed. This have been the case since launch 2008 and players have been "solving" it ever since.
3. My argument was that order stacked the wrong classes. This whole thread is trying o answer why order stack rdps btw.

On live order had the luxury of having utility and damage on a few key classes while destro often had utility separated from damage. Order warbands was very uniform while destro wbs had a much more varied class composition.

[Lorsten]

The topic started with the question why order lack of mellee and full of BW and Engie (which leads to destro dominating in city, i think everyone agrees that PUG mellee > PUG ranged).

From 5 page till 13, there is crying about destro classes OP and needs a nerf (Sorcs>BW, choppas>slayers, yeah, right xD).
So destro will be nerfed, what will change? Every engie/SW gonna reroll viable class, or what? I have no idea how u need to nerf destro, to make order PUGS full of bad classes to start winning (and why it should happen?).

The problem is not between realms (its waaaay more balanced than was on live in terms of population and open RvR lakes), its the balance inside order realm. Some classes just need a bit of dev's love and get a change in mechanics/specs/etc (engie/SW/IB).

In conclusion, stop whining about every destro class being OP, because its not true. Better make some suggestions for a devs about changing underperforming classes on order side.
Please give engies/SW's aoe specs a little love in terms of utility in WB (dont just increase their dmg, cuz its gonna break ORvR balance, where order feels great already).

[growill]

Biggest city imbalance imo:
The aoe melee class with most utility in game also has morale drain
While order has morale drain on borderline non-viable class who cannot pull it out even remotely as efficiently

Morale vs no morale gg

[emiliorv]

Order saying destro melee train OP is just a joke with KOTBS reflect melee dmg and slayers stacking parry+riposite+rampage...

[emiliorv]

Biggest city imbalance imo:
The aoe melee class with most utility in game also has morale drain
While order has morale drain on borderline non-viable class who cannot pull it out even remotely as efficiently

Morale vs no morale gg

really?
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16174

[Specialpatrol]

Order saying destro melee train OP is just a joke with KOTBS reflect melee dmg and slayers stacking parry+riposite+rampage...

This mostly sounds like a whiner, who lost a 1v1...

You hopefully know that the “OP” builds you are referring to only have their use in orvr small scale / 1v1 situations. They hardly constitutes a melee train.

[emiliorv]

Order saying destro melee train OP is just a joke with KOTBS reflect melee dmg and slayers stacking parry+riposite+rampage...

This mostly sounds like a whiner, who lost a 1v1...

You hopefully know that the “OP” builds you are referring to only have their use in orvr small scale / 1v1 situations. They hardly constitutes a melee train.

i only play support claases, i dont play MMOs to play solo trying to 1vs1
for the record => this whole thread is a full river of tears of you realmates, dont forget to post your own whine about destro op before go to lose your next city instance...