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Debate about why Order is how it is.

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teiloh
Posts: 668

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#101 » Wed May 06, 2020 1:56 am

In the end, the real problem is that Destro is pretty much better in every measure of power. DPS (AOE), Healing/Absorbs, Morales, CC, Utility, Group Synergy, Damage Mitigation, Mobility. Because this advantage has compounded for months, Destro is also better geared and higher ranked (you can see Destro with more kills in ORvR zones, for example).

Yes, you can override this with better coordination, but it's a hill to climb. This explains the 65 and even up to 80% win ratios for Destro. There's also data to be seen on the leaderboards.
poisonedshotz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:39 am
Question is why order's meme fort defense perform better than destro's at a clip of 95-5 on average

Oh wait, its because order players CHOOSE to play classes like BW and Engi which are strong in fort and weaker in city. Stop whining and hoping the devs will cater and make your favorite classes the best for all types of content.
1. Prove these win ratios
2. Ever heard of a thing called "switching classes"? People play their fort characters, and then they switch to their city chars.

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Nameless
Posts: 854

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#102 » Wed May 06, 2020 3:26 am

part of the problem is that order's realm cant play optimal (or it is much harder to do) small scale at orvr and since small scale scene is the backbone of learning your class and capabilities of enemy classes, order's players tend to do more solo rdps play.

When you are facing new founded for ror gtdc and that monstrosity mSh add annoying, non defendable, scalling with strg, mara's pull and your capabilities to kite as orders and do some real small scale become quite non realistic. Hence ppl on the side of the good guys start to blob/zerg and become solotards.
Mostly harmless

cynicprophet
Posts: 42

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#103 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:09 am

Please less rain of fire and more developed gameplay or even you can give up on playing dps because even a normal tank better than a mediocre bright wizard.

cynicprophet
Posts: 42

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#104 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:13 am

I blame bad streamer players who do play bright wizard and engineers which encourages new players to a mediocre gameplay style.Streaming ego and game knowledge is two different things,having a fanbase may not change the reality you are a mediocre player.

poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#105 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 am

teiloh wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:56 am
In the end, the real problem is that Destro is pretty much better in every measure of power. DPS (AOE), Healing/Absorbs, Morales, CC, Utility, Group Synergy, Damage Mitigation, Mobility. Because this advantage has compounded for months, Destro is also better geared and higher ranked (you can see Destro with more kills in ORvR zones, for example).

Yes, you can override this with better coordination, but it's a hill to climb. This explains the 65 and even up to 80% win ratios for Destro. There's also data to be seen on the leaderboards.
poisonedshotz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:39 am
Question is why order's meme fort defense perform better than destro's at a clip of 95-5 on average

Oh wait, its because order players CHOOSE to play classes like BW and Engi which are strong in fort and weaker in city. Stop whining and hoping the devs will cater and make your favorite classes the best for all types of content.
1. Prove these win ratios
2. Ever heard of a thing called "switching classes"? People play their fort characters, and then they switch to their city chars.
1. prove your win ratios
2. ok so get off your engi and get on your slayer. no? then stop whining like an entitled baby

growill
Posts: 72

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#106 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:35 am

I think its mostly because destro has bigger/more guilds. Playing solo/pug many people will go rdps because well, you're always ready to flee.
playing an mpds pug means you'll often go unguarded and we all know how it ends.

Having big guilds means more coordination, more chances to "oh we need a tank i'll swap to it"

Singularity, tup, pnp, fmj have each twice the people order guilds can count on pretty much all the time

dansari
Suspended
Posts: 2524

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#107 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 am

growill wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:35 am
I think its mostly because destro has bigger/more guilds. Playing solo/pug many people will go rdps because well, you're always ready to flee.
playing an mpds pug means you'll often go unguarded and we all know how it ends.

Having big guilds means more coordination, more chances to "oh we need a tank i'll swap to it"

Singularity, tup, pnp, fmj have each twice the people order guilds can count on pretty much all the time
This type of thinking is just hilarious to me. There aren't "better" destro guilds. There are "overtuned" destro classes as a whole. FMJ mainly run sorc bomb builds, and while they are very coordinated and effective, are no better players than what people would consider the "good" order players. It's simply that destro's floor is *much* higher than order's, due to a lot of factors: versatility, overtuning of classes, and absence of counters. It's been this way for a while but it hasn't been as apparent since cities were dropped. Plus, guess where most of the "good" guilds would be playing if order had the edge in cities?
poisonedshotz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 am
teiloh wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:56 am
In the end, the real problem is that Destro is pretty much better in every measure of power. DPS (AOE), Healing/Absorbs, Morales, CC, Utility, Group Synergy, Damage Mitigation, Mobility. Because this advantage has compounded for months, Destro is also better geared and higher ranked (you can see Destro with more kills in ORvR zones, for example).

Yes, you can override this with better coordination, but it's a hill to climb. This explains the 65 and even up to 80% win ratios for Destro. There's also data to be seen on the leaderboards.
poisonedshotz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:39 am
Question is why order's meme fort defense perform better than destro's at a clip of 95-5 on average

Oh wait, its because order players CHOOSE to play classes like BW and Engi which are strong in fort and weaker in city. Stop whining and hoping the devs will cater and make your favorite classes the best for all types of content.
1. Prove these win ratios
2. Ever heard of a thing called "switching classes"? People play their fort characters, and then they switch to their city chars.
1. prove your win ratios
2. ok so get off your engi and get on your slayer. no? then stop whining like an entitled baby
galaxy brain hard at work on the forums these days
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dansari
Suspended
Posts: 2524

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#108 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:38 am

Which is it, are order players garbage in general and therefore that's why they lose cities, or are they so good they win forts at a clip of "95-5" and should therefore be nerfed? The gall of some of these destro fanboiz is hilarious.

No, listen, order has a bunch of shitlord solo rdps and that's why they lose cities.

No, listen, order has a bunch of shitlord solo rdps and that's why we can't coordinate pushes with our elite organized destro wbs in forts with clearly better players than order????????????????????????????????
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teiloh
Posts: 668

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#109 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:48 am

poisonedshotz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 am

1. prove your win ratios
2. ok so get off your engi and get on your slayer. no? then stop whining like an entitled baby
1. Destro/Order win ratios are a matter of public record. If you didn't notice, wins are printed in green in your system chat.
2. Slayers don't instant win anything, because of the reasons listed above. Please don't try to preserve an imbalanced state of the game because you suspect you won't be able to win otherwise.

User avatar
Nekkma
Posts: 637

Re: Debate about why Order is how it is.

Post#110 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:58 am

As this now has turned about city. Do typically most get into city at order side? On destro side it seems that you need 12 or 24 to be fairly sure to get in. Soloing does not seem to work anymore (yesterday we had a crash before stage 1 started which did not get backfilled all city). This leads to all cities I have been in have a 2/2/2 setup (even the pug wbs).

On the other side you still run into complete bonkers order setups with 2-3 healers or tanks. Is that because of less pop that you are guaranteed to get in or that it is impossible to get tanks and heals for all wbs?
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