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Reward for not throwing zone before fort

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Marawo
Posts: 111

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#21 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:50 pm

About this issue, the sentiment of "let them take endzone so we can go fort" stems mainly from the way the campaign progresses after a successful defense or the counterpush.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37379&p=405422#p405422
Spoiler:
Marawo wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:15 pm I will use the names of the empire/chaos zones and forts they are interchangeable with the other pairings for this suggestion.


Current Issue: T4 Endzones are unappealing to defend

When does "throwing mentality" start?

Generally whoever wins the middle zone changes the dynamic of the campaign in his favour, once you get pushed to your endzone the realisation slowly trickles in that if you defend this endzone you probably won't see a fort that day if you stick to your playtime, but you don't want that. Successfully defending the Endzone means reverting campaign progress, it's no fun since you feel like you are missing out by winning.

Basically what this means is:
Throwing Zone mentality starts already at the beginning of the Endzone. Maybe it doesn't show in chat or every player instantly but the snowball start to roll and grow already from the start of the Endzone. But Why?

Counterpushing is a slugfest

Set youself in this situation as an example, you are a destruction player ,lost praag after a bit back and forth, and the active zone is chaos wastes now.
You can
A) lose CW and have a chance to get into a fort defense for 4 Medals

or
B) slug down the overwhelming attacking forces (the reason why you lost praag) and make their supply buildup painful and repel their keep assaults until you can countersiege. Finally you won CW receive you 1 Invader token, but you wanna go to fort, well now you are back in praag the place that decided the dynamic multiple hours ago, you get tired the warbands change and the counteroffensive is exhausted before it started, because even if you win praag in a reasonable time, you still have the Reikland zone to take, in a reasonable time, as well but chances are praag gets an influx of fresh players from other timezones so there's good reason to assume the zone will become a back and forth slugfest again. In the end you will find yourself either back in CW where it all started and finally give in or in reikland with no energy left to push this endzone let alone an additional hour for the fort that follows.

option B sounds exhausting doesn't it.


How to fix?

Counteroffensive mechanic

The basic idea behind this mechanic is that the counterattacking faction overruns the attacking faction because they had to overextend their supply lines into enemy territory resulting in an instant takeover of the middle zone.

For example, you are a destruction player again and in CW, if you win this zone, praag will be overrun/skipped because order supply lines are stretched and the next zone will be reikland, and reikland is an endzone which means if you win that zone as well there will be a fort straight after.

Illustration for better understanding:
Spoiler:
Image

How does the payout compare

Sure you could lose CW and go fort for 4 medals,
OR you could win CW get 1 medal, win reikland and go fort for 4-6 medals.

That's not too bad of a deal especially since your faction is in high spirits from the recent win.
Going to Reikland instead of Praag from CW signals "HEY Fortattack, phat loot, after this zone" which will keep the counteroffensive motivated.
But most importantly you don't regress the campaign, sure the "time till fort" is increased in this calculation but so is the reward for that fort since you are now the attacker with a chance for 4-6
(+1 from previous endzone def)



This kind of mechanic is already kind of implemented in successful fort defenses where the active zone pushes back to the middle zone. Ofc it would work here under different parameters since you have to actively win the endzone instead of not lose fort.


Disclaimer: The following idea stems from my absolute lunacy and shouldn't actually be considered.
Spoiler:
What if you create a battlefield objective inbetween the zones, you know on the border of CW/praag etc. and connect it to the overrun mechanic, basically if the destro counterattack can take this flag and hold it for set amount of time previous order attacker gets pushed into reikland, if order can stop them for set timeframe their retreat is considered controlled and orderly and only get pushed back to praag.

As always please tell me your thoughts on this idea.
give me you thoughts about this idea here or in my original thread

thank you and I hope devs will see this
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darklord360
Posts: 6

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#22 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:21 pm

Oh and not to forget. a currency conversion rate available in our respective cities for Vanquisher to Invader at a rate of 20 : 1 (reasonable and proportionate for efforts involved). That'l get a whole lot of people fighting in every zone, all the time. Slow and steady progress for everyone without handing out stuff. You want invader crests, okay, fight like hell! More effort = more Crests = progress whether the campaign makes it to fort/city or not! i really hope this gets into next patch. I think the server needs it.

DirkDaring
Posts: 425

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#23 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:30 pm

Drekan wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:06 pm 1% of server thinking about it, 99% just retardly take or def keep all days long and probably dont know about reward mecanics
maybe someday everyone understand and let city be pushed and stop waste everyone time and get 1 royal for fort def... lol
def city access should give much more rewards than city def itself..


Nah I play the same way here as on live, I have no issue farming the other faction in city, however i'm not going to just let them get to the city, they have to actually get there, not people throwing zones to get them there.

I've only needed Sov on my toons for over a year now, but got tired of seeing people let the other faction take zones just to get to Fort, and now to get to city, like letting dest 5 star Riekland, or Eataine etc when they could have prevented it.

Gear while part of progression, is just a byproduct of playing the game, youll still get it, but shouldnt be the only reason to play, if you are willing to lose just to get gear, maybe you should be playing something else.

I quit for 9 months, took a break i got tired of all the calls in zone to throw the zone, and griefing those trying to defend etc, I came back 2 months ago, and its still the same , people hoping we lose and demanding we dont defend etc, just because one of their toons needs city,

I to only need city, but i'm not going to lose, just to get there. if that`s the case, guess I need to take a break again.
Last edited by DirkDaring on Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

TimOh
Posts: 24

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#24 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:50 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:26 pm Rewards should be logical to the goal of the game. I.e. it should be in my interest to defend the pre-fort zone, then fort, and so on. It shouldn't be that I either don't play or secretely hope we lose so I can get to the part of the game where I get to progress.

Screw me for wanting to play, have fun, and progress in the game at the same time. But for some reason ppl here say that either you have fun and shut up about reward or you are just an addict playing only for gear and you will never be happy. For some reason no one is willing to have a reasonable inbetweeen. Instead you are labeled as someone "who is just here for the loot."
Agreed

If the objective is to have people play the zones as intended, the gear needs to not be locked into forts and cities. If one can simply play the game, even if it takes awhile to get the highest tier sets, there would be far less of the "let them cap the zone" arguements.

Convrrsion of tokens, having invader drop or crests drop, even if sparingly, at say 75+ and 80+ respectivly could very well improve the players mindset while in game.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#25 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:15 am

TimOh wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:50 pm Convrrsion of tokens, having invader drop or crests drop, even if sparingly, at say 75+ and 80+ respectivly could very well improve the players mindset while in game.
Yeah, making invader medallions drop from high-ranking players would reduce zone throw aways, give incentive to fight and would reduce the bottleneck that is the current fort medallion gain system.
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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#26 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:19 am

I wonder how many times devs will say no to this topic before finally caving and saying "fine, I can't take it anymore!"
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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#27 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:21 am

Detangler wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:19 am I wonder how many times devs will say no to this topic before finally caving and saying "fine, I can't take it anymore!"
Given that you need 220 inv for full set that enables you to wear other city sets AND is BiS for many classes/builds and you've got very short rank bracket where you get them in city siege without the option to convert royals to inv... I hope soon.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
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wargrimnir
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Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#28 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:30 am

Detangler wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:19 am I wonder how many times devs will say no to this topic before finally caving and saying "fine, I can't take it anymore!"
Really doesn't change the answer having to repeat it.
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Vayra
Posts: 577

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#29 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:50 am

wargrimnir wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:30 am
Detangler wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:19 am I wonder how many times devs will say no to this topic before finally caving and saying "fine, I can't take it anymore!"
Really doesn't change the answer having to repeat it.
Repeating it doesn't make it a better answer, either. With the amount of players currently trying to get into forts, and the number of bags available for those who do get in, Invader is unreasonably hard to obtain. Especially for those who can no longer get Invader crests from city.
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Yaliskah
Former Staff
Posts: 1973

Re: Reward for not throwing zone before fort

Post#30 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:32 am

[maybe a fake news on] on next patch, all currencies in inventory of those who are, entering in Fort when this area is not active, gonna be sinked and shared to players who are actively contributing in rvr. [maybe a fake news off] problem solved. :)

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