WP/DOK Shield spec

[istvar]

I feel like people aren't actually understanding the changes to grace/sacrifice. The change was to allow sigmar radiance's healing to scale BETTER with your offensive stats now, as should be expected from a mastery tree based on lifetap healing.

Actually let me rephrase it for you- the change was to make Grace's healing to scale WORSE with your defensive stats now- toughness/armor talis=t3 heals. As in, if before Grace+shield main was useless just in rvr, now shield wp/dok become also much easier to burst down in small scale.

The changes were proposed after testing different scaling values, such that a new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary will end up healing MORE than before, even with the base heal removed from Grace of Sigmar. The changes ALLOW you to try and find how much offensive stat you are comfortable with running because the healing from radiance scales much better than before. Even if you stayed with a defensive/toughness build, you WILL heal more than before as long as you have >600 str/melee power, which should not be hard given you can do that with entry level 40 gear, and you have a 120 str buff from Sigmar's Fist.

Now funny thing is, a new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary will NOT end up healing MORE than before, since he won't be anywhere near 600 str. A new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary, with full str talis and offensive jewelry will- in theory, since in practice he will live exactly until a single competent dps with a decent setup does KD/burst, and then will go down to 0 healing while waiting for respawn/rez.

If you play alone a lot and you can't always rely on having guards and other healers, you are more than welcome to stay in a more defensive build. I have tested full toughness builds with sentinel (around 700toughness), or high armor (4.5+ armor) builds, and I am still healing more than before simply because we are not relying on a static base heal that hasn't scaled at all to account for newer gear sets that have come o ut.

How much will you heal exactly after 2 WE's in annih will burst you down?

Yeah but you only healed for 1.2 million in grace spec in the city the other day, so what do you know?

And I managed to stay in top healing positions in cities with 700 will and pretty much no heal crit, while not having wp's wounds buff to inflate my healing (and while using rezzes ets). Your point?

Not sure why the hostility but maybe if he can make it work and be respected on the class/spec and you can’t then maybe the problem is with you and not the class/spec

[Zxul]

Not sure why the hostility but maybe if he can make it work and be respected on the class/spec and you can’t then maybe the problem is with you and not the class/spec

Out of curiosity, why would I try and make a shield build, which I have no intention of using, work? I mean, if you say that I do then I probably got reasons, but since I can't think of those, I'm really curious to hear them. Plz enlighten me.

[Twyxx]

Aggressively flexing in a theorycrafting thread... imagine.

[Sirlagsalot]

To put it in simple terms- as a healer you will be focused, then focused again, then focused some more.

Before with a shield you could spec defensively, now since some wps/doks can't bear thought of non glass cannon build if you go Grace/Sacrifice routine you need to spec glass cannon to get decent heals. Guess how much heals help you survive during KD for example, compared to passive defenses? Or when focused by several people?

As for Salvation/Dark Rites main with shield, there is the question of how effective speccing about block really is when you no longer get efficient heals out of dmg, compared to just using chalice and freeing renown/equip slots to spec other defenses.

I feel like people aren't actually understanding the changes to grace/sacrifice. The change was to allow sigmar radiance's healing to scale BETTER with your offensive stats now, as should be expected from a mastery tree based on lifetap healing. The changes were proposed after testing different scaling values, such that a new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary will end up healing MORE than before, even with the base heal removed from Grace of Sigmar. The changes ALLOW you to try and find how much offensive stat you are comfortable with running because the healing from radiance scales much better than before. Even if you stayed with a defensive/toughness build, you WILL heal more than before as long as you have >600 str/melee power, which should not be hard given you can do that with entry level 40 gear, and you have a 120 str buff from Sigmar's Fist.

If you play alone a lot and you can't always rely on having guards and other healers, you are more than welcome to stay in a more defensive build. I have tested full toughness builds with sentinel (around 700toughness), or high armor (4.5+ armor) builds, and I am still healing more than before simply because we are not relying on a static base heal that hasn't scaled at all to account for newer gear sets that have come o ut.

I think you dont understand grace/sacrifice changes have made healing output go down by a massive amount the only time its is better then it was before is against targets with no toughness an less then 50% armour mitigation (you need full warlord rp in weaponskill an talied with weaponskill to get over 50% armour pen, specn weaponskill is not glass cannon yet it is highest damage output outside of target dumbys)

[Rydiak]

To put it in simple terms- as a healer you will be focused, then focused again, then focused some more.

Before with a shield you could spec defensively, now since some wps/doks can't bear thought of non glass cannon build if you go Grace/Sacrifice routine you need to spec glass cannon to get decent heals. Guess how much heals help you survive during KD for example, compared to passive defenses? Or when focused by several people?

As for Salvation/Dark Rites main with shield, there is the question of how effective speccing about block really is when you no longer get efficient heals out of dmg, compared to just using chalice and freeing renown/equip slots to spec other defenses.

I feel like people aren't actually understanding the changes to grace/sacrifice. The change was to allow sigmar radiance's healing to scale BETTER with your offensive stats now, as should be expected from a mastery tree based on lifetap healing. The changes were proposed after testing different scaling values, such that a new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary will end up healing MORE than before, even with the base heal removed from Grace of Sigmar. The changes ALLOW you to try and find how much offensive stat you are comfortable with running because the healing from radiance scales much better than before. Even if you stayed with a defensive/toughness build, you WILL heal more than before as long as you have >600 str/melee power, which should not be hard given you can do that with entry level 40 gear, and you have a 120 str buff from Sigmar's Fist.

If you play alone a lot and you can't always rely on having guards and other healers, you are more than welcome to stay in a more defensive build. I have tested full toughness builds with sentinel (around 700toughness), or high armor (4.5+ armor) builds, and I am still healing more than before simply because we are not relying on a static base heal that hasn't scaled at all to account for newer gear sets that have come o ut.

I think you dont understand grace/sacrifice changes have made healing output go down by a massive amount the only time its is better then it was before is against targets with no toughness an less then 50% armour mitigation (you need full warlord rp in weaponskill an talied with weaponskill to get over 50% armour pen, specn weaponskill is not glass cannon yet it is highest damage output outside of target dumbys)

What does your Transfer Essence non-crit hit a Target Dummy for?

[Rydiak]

I think I misunderstand these changes. Is it saying that there still is a base heal, but that base heal is based upon your ability damage? So even if you hit a tank, that ability damage still provides a base heal, as opposed to hitting a tank and healing for nothing?

Yes, exactly. And that base heal is essentially equivalent to 85% of the damage you'd hit a Target Dummy for (in other words, the heal is based on the damage it would have done before any mitigations). After that it then heals for 50%/75% of the damage you actually do to the target. So assuming your base heal before the change was 423 (with 15 points in the Grace/Sacrifice tree and the tactic equipped), you would only have to hit a Target Dummy for 497 damage to be equivalent. Any damage higher than that is a straight buff.



This would have healed for 464 before the patch [54*.75+423] but now heals for 481 [(54+464)*.85+54*.75].

[Sirlagsalot]

I feel like people aren't actually understanding the changes to grace/sacrifice. The change was to allow sigmar radiance's healing to scale BETTER with your offensive stats now, as should be expected from a mastery tree based on lifetap healing. The changes were proposed after testing different scaling values, such that a new level 40 wearing a mix of beastlord and mercenary will end up healing MORE than before, even with the base heal removed from Grace of Sigmar. The changes ALLOW you to try and find how much offensive stat you are comfortable with running because the healing from radiance scales much better than before. Even if you stayed with a defensive/toughness build, you WILL heal more than before as long as you have >600 str/melee power, which should not be hard given you can do that with entry level 40 gear, and you have a 120 str buff from Sigmar's Fist.

If you play alone a lot and you can't always rely on having guards and other healers, you are more than welcome to stay in a more defensive build. I have tested full toughness builds with sentinel (around 700toughness), or high armor (4.5+ armor) builds, and I am still healing more than before simply because we are not relying on a static base heal that hasn't scaled at all to account for newer gear sets that have come o ut.

I think you dont understand grace/sacrifice changes have made healing output go down by a massive amount the only time its is better then it was before is against targets with no toughness an less then 50% armour mitigation (you need full warlord rp in weaponskill an talied with weaponskill to get over 50% armour pen, specn weaponskill is not glass cannon yet it is highest damage output outside of target dumbys)

What does your Transfer Essence non-crit hit a Target Dummy for?

About 717 but thats with best gear i got on run dual bloodlord weapons might hit hard but if they dont die in a few seconds you run outa ap real quick
with what i use for ap gen its about 675


max meleepower set up below

[Rydiak]

So hitting with TE for 717, your BASE HEAL is 609. Then add on 75% of whatever damage you actually do. So I gotta ask you, how do you feel these changes were a nerf?

[Sirlagsalot]

So hitting with TE for 717, your BASE HEAL is 609. Then add on 75% of whatever damage you actually do. So I gotta ask you, how do you feel these changes were a nerf?

After traumatizing the sc ques this morning i have come to the conclusion that against non top tier geared players it is a buff............
tho i dont think others will get the same results, not many melee heals runing around with 57%/51% armour pen and as much melee power as me

[Rydiak]

So hitting with TE for 717, your BASE HEAL is 609. Then add on 75% of whatever damage you actually do. So I gotta ask you, how do you feel these changes were a nerf?

After traumatizing the sc ques this morning i have come to the conclusion that against non top tier geared players it is a buff............
tho i dont think others will get the same results, not many melee heals runing around with 57%/51% armour pen and as much melee power as me

I am talking about in regards to the base heal, which is the only thing that was changed during the patch. So the whole bit about armor penetration is irrelevant. So I ask again, how do you feel this is a nerf, and why do you believe Uanaka/myself don't understand the changes?