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I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

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hammerhead
Posts: 139

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#41 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:14 am

xanderous wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:53 am
Looks like order players need to get more organised for warbands in 24vs24, stackin napalm, ps and rof from bw's and engies like they do at every fort and keep just ain't gonna cut it in cities.
An order has no problems at all. A order probably has 2-3 guilds able to set a full 2/2/2 warband in the required gear/rr in prime time. I quit my class in order to offer my services to those organized guilds who do not have the opportunity to fill all the spots. One can still go on talking for several pages to the point of why it is so, and not differently. For me, considering in what state the classes and state of the order atm, this is a very, very good indicator. And I would be ashamed of such statistics on the site of destro and their capabilities and not be proud of it. Enjoy your game.
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Manatikik
Posts: 1102

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#42 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:16 am

Zhah wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:22 am
Nidwin wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:36 am
Zhah wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:44 pm
I feel like pug scores can definitely sway this one way or the other, where some cities will have 2 order healers while destro has 8. It also comes down to Destro players play more melee classes where on order you see a metric **** of engis and BWs, which explains why they do better in forts if there isn't a good chunk of organized destro on.
And what melee classes do you suggest folks wanting to play order roll?

Let me think, hmmmm.
BW and Engineer would still be my option, you know, outside slayer of course.

I although may be able to play a SW but this would require me to PL in PVE a SW to level 40 as I would require Lileath's Arrow as spammer and a **** of luck and gold because I would require AP on my equipment, 40AP cost of Lileath's Arrow. But I think I would be able to manage.
Melee classes include tanks, a lot of the pug cities I see have a good mix of things on destro, whereas order gets an overflow of dps without enough tanks and minimal heals. I feel like there is a lack of organization on order and not too many people running /5 wbs or 12mans trying to at least get a 2/2/2 or close to that, as the pool to pick from tanks and heals thins out very fast and you are just left with a mass of rdps. I'm not saying that order has better options, I'm more saying pug cities can skew the results. On destro there is a ton of people organizing 2/2/2 groups whether its 6, 12, 18, or 24. In comparison that isn't as prevalent on order. I could be wrong on that but that's what I have seen personally.

SW is **** in cities, but you still have wbs winning with them. WL was considered **** and the League of Lions started winning cities with them and people noticed.

My opinion is that in zones order can be carried by 1 or 2 organized bomb wbs like THUNDERCATS and Bombling, but they can't carry order in each individual city.


I feel personally attacked.

@Nid its **** because it is. The "AoE" spec is essentially a fun snap spec. You can make it work with Assault (assuming you build a WB around it and are rr 80 BiS) but anything you can do a Slayer/WL can do better. There is no argument for SW in WB play; its just ****. ASW is pretty good in 6v6 though, so thats cool.
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Akilinus
Posts: 298

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#43 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:21 am

Just stop playing trash classes.
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Jabba
Posts: 227

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#44 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:31 am

You don't need some full meta warband to win cities, a reasonably balanced comp is enough more often than not. You don't need to have a warband filled with KoBS and WP, but you do need tanks and healers. Order is just filled with the worst class in the game. That is, solo and unguarded DPS, who don't even change spec, who then queue up and hope to get carried. If some of these rerolled useful classes (tanks and healers, not just wp/kobs), their win ratio would probably go up.

Image
**** like this isn't all that uncommon to see on order.

You don't need to run just slayer and bw, the other DPS classes can do a job too if they're supported and played reasonably well. (Although sw is rock bottom of any tier list)
Last edited by Jabba on Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vertolet
Posts: 14

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#45 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:33 am

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/599950653?t=01m30s

3 squig to moral 4, jump to the backline profit

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Nidwin
Posts: 662

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#46 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:37 am

Spoiler:
Manatikik wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:16 am
Zhah wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:22 am
Nidwin wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:36 am


And what melee classes do you suggest folks wanting to play order roll?

Let me think, hmmmm.
BW and Engineer would still be my option, you know, outside slayer of course.

I although may be able to play a SW but this would require me to PL in PVE a SW to level 40 as I would require Lileath's Arrow as spammer and a **** of luck and gold because I would require AP on my equipment, 40AP cost of Lileath's Arrow. But I think I would be able to manage.
Melee classes include tanks, a lot of the pug cities I see have a good mix of things on destro, whereas order gets an overflow of dps without enough tanks and minimal heals. I feel like there is a lack of organization on order and not too many people running /5 wbs or 12mans trying to at least get a 2/2/2 or close to that, as the pool to pick from tanks and heals thins out very fast and you are just left with a mass of rdps. I'm not saying that order has better options, I'm more saying pug cities can skew the results. On destro there is a ton of people organizing 2/2/2 groups whether its 6, 12, 18, or 24. In comparison that isn't as prevalent on order. I could be wrong on that but that's what I have seen personally.

SW is **** in cities, but you still have wbs winning with them. WL was considered **** and the League of Lions started winning cities with them and people noticed.

My opinion is that in zones order can be carried by 1 or 2 organized bomb wbs like THUNDERCATS and Bombling, but they can't carry order in each individual city.


I feel personally attacked.

@Nid its **** because it is. The "AoE" spec is essentially a fun snap spec. You can make it work with Assault (assuming you build a WB around it and are rr 80 BiS) but anything you can do a Slayer/WL can do better. There is no argument for SW in WB play; its just ****. ASW is pretty good in 6v6 though, so thats cool.
I was only asking for the SW as I don't see how a SW could go aoe below rank 40 because of the need for Lileath's Arrow. From my short experience WL aoe is horrible and not even worth a try vs what an engi can do in melee aoe and utility while still having a lot of ranged goodies.

Anyway,
people always wine and think the grass is greener on the other side.
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Jabba
Posts: 227

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#47 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:38 am

vertolet wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:33 am
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/599950653?t=01m30s

3 squig to moral 4, jump to the backline profit
Maybe they should have tried something other than mindlessly stacking and funnelling a doorway? giving destro all the time they needed to get to that M4 uncontested.
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Nidwin
Posts: 662

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#48 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:43 am

@Jabba

Now that's a dps heavy order composition for that city instance.
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wonshot
Posts: 599

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#49 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:49 am

Thanks for tracking the data, Dan. It is interresting but not really a shocker.

A few statements that I think is some of the reason to this outcome would be;

"Order is overstacked on warband tools on a few select classes"
"Destro have more warband versatility on their classes and comps"
"Order pugs bring too much rdps and in general assisting in pug enviroment is none exsistant on RoR"
"destro pugs have easier tools to work with unorganized"
"more organized players might play on destro"

Order is overstacked on warband tools on a few select classes:

Knight is overloaded, warriorpriest is overloaded, engineer has all the control you could wish for but noone knows how to play them, slayer and BW are better for largescale than their mirrors. And thats the core of order largescale all squished into these few classes. Sure you can run WH, WL, IB and whatever but some of these classes actually requires you to play "super well" Archmage being the perfect example of a class that tecnically could outperform its reputation but due to too many mediocre AMs the class is not picked up anymore.

Destro have more warband versatility on their classes and comps:
Pretty much just the SW effect here. You see some of these amazing ranged SHs who transition into Melee builds because it increases their winchance and effectiveness by more than double. Singletarget assist trasins of stealthers and dual wilding meleedps function on both realms, maguses having a snare while able to repossion on the move and no delay on their rift make them easier to fit in while dealing magical 40%softcapped damage compared to snipe engineers thinking their will be heroes in the backline undisturped :roll: and the list goes on.

Order pugs bring too much rdps and in general assisting in a pug enviroment is none exsistant on RoR:

Order tanks looking less appealing might be a reason why order is lacking frontline and players pick rdps to try and solo-carry, but in the end it end up biting us all in the ass realmwide. And sure a ton of rpds kiting and assisting down the same target(s) could tecnically work. But the overall mindset on this server compared to live, is just that people dont assist. Join a random scenario and on Live you would have people claiming Mainassist and dropping down targets together, where as on here pugs dont even bother its every man for himself.

Destro pugs have easier tools to work with unorganized:
Meing a mara and doing an aoe knockdown into a ball of order is almost never a bad idea as it can be assited and it cant be "broken" as a random knight/chosen aoe stagger could. Destro tanks having morale selfpump and uncoordinated throwing out M2 Bellows will stall the fight and give advantages one way or the other for their team. Having most if not all Destro dps classes with an "acceptable" warband aoe build make for easier gameplay with just stacking in a deathball going around cleaving compared to setting up singleassist groups.

More organized players might play on destro:
No data to back this up, its just a gutfeeling for playing on the server for years now. Destro realm overall just seem to have more fun tools and appealing classes. Yes you can do stuff on order, but you get bored of being a meta hero and stuck with the same old few classes. From experience in joining city warbands on order side enough to get 2/3 of the royal sets +2 pieces now of the 3rd set. I see the same trend in lfg channel 4 classes in high demand and the rest have to form ragtag "loser" bagroll-bands. Sometimes the stronger and stacked warbands cant even queue early because 2-3 warbands are sitting at 22/24 and all searching for the same career to fill the last spots, well knowing what is waiting for them inside the city so they want to bring the best roster they can.
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Goermsi
Posts: 65

Re: I Recorded 7 Days of City Scores

Post#50 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:51 am

Nobody had the idea that maybe 60-65% of the population of the server is destro and due to the higher population there are more premade-groups than on the order side?
Such an evaluation is quite nice, but it requires more than a week of incomplete logging.

objectivity
reliability
validity

These three things only the GM's can contribute, they have complete data. That now again various conspiracy theories are listed here which class can and cannot do what shows only ... that you all have too much time. Wargrimnir is absolutely right, learn how to play and organise urself before you start criticizing exuberant mechanics. The biggest mistakes are mostly sitting in front of the screen ;-)
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